Mansfield Training School, Mansfield
Courtesy of the National Register of Historic Places
The Damned Story: Although there are thousands of state residents who have attended the University of Connecticut, very few are familiar with the story of the Depot Campus, and how it was formerly the Mansfield Training School. Or how the buildings belonging to the former mental hospital are believed by some to be haunted.
In a demonstration of how political correctness is a 21st-century invention, the Mansfield Training School originally started in 1860 as the “Connecticut School for Imbeciles,” and was located in Lakeville. As hard as it is to believe, that name eventually offended someone, and in 1915 it was re-christened the “Connecticut Training School for Feebleminded.” (Yeah, that’s much better.) In 1917, it was merged with Connecticut Colony for Epileptics in Mansfield, where the new 350-acre campus was opened under the official banner of the Mansfield Training School and Hospital.
With its isolated location and bucolic setting, the Mansfield Training School was an ideal place to treat those afflicted with mental disorders. For the next 60 years it was home to residents who suffered from all sorts of mental afflictions. At the height of its use, it housed over 1,800 residents and featured over 50 buildings, most of which were devoted to patient treatment. It also had a small farm that provided occupational therapy for some of the epileptic patients in addition to food for the facility.
Sadly, like other hospitals that dealt with mental illness, there were allegations of poor conditions and abuse, although many, many more people were helped rather than hurt during their stays. Overall, the facility appeared to have a dedicated, caring staff and a good reputation.
After numerous lawsuits and concerns about the conditions, however, the Mansfield Training School was closed in 1993; patients were sent to more modern facilities and institutions throughout the state. A few of the most dilapidated buildings were demolished while others became part of the University of Connecticut as its Depot Campus. Another part of the original campus was annexed by the Bergin Correctional Center, a level-2 minimum security facility for male offenders.
In 1987, the Mansfield Training School was added to the National Register of Historic Places.
Again, despite the mostly positive, caring work that went on here (and at other similar facilities), there seems to be a story or two of negative incidents, any one of which is enough to initiate stories of restless souls and troubled spirits.
Consequently, there have been reports of spirit mists and orbs here, as well as experiences involving unexplained voices, sounds and shapes. The building of the former Knight Hospital is one place where unexplained phenomena is still allegedly observed.
Courtesy of National Register of Historic Places
Paranormal groups, such as PROOF, have also investigated a few of the buildings, and claim to have found evidence confirming paranormal activity, for what it’s worth.
Our Damned Experience: When we visited UConn’s Ballard Institute of Puppetry in 2010, we mentioned that the museum was located in an old, seemingly abandoned area on the Depot Campus, which as it turns out, was part of the Mansfield Training School. So we were there without even realizing it!
As we mentioned when we visited, that area of the campus feels a bit like a forgotten part of the campus. Now we have a reason to go back and explore a bit!
If You Go: The grounds of the former Mansfield Training School are now part of UConn’s Depot Campus on Route 44 in Storrs, and thus are open to the public. As mentioned, the Ballard Institute of Puppetry is here, in addition to the Center for Clean Energy Engineering, Human Resources, Community School of the Arts and Chaplin Cottage.
On the other side of Route 44 is the Bergin Correctional Center, which also features some of the former training school campus, although it’s not exactly open to the public in the conventional sense.
On the UConn side, some of the old structures remain empty, and have been overgrown by weeds and ivy. Obviously, visitors are vigorously discouraged from entering these buildings.
Don’t bother going anymore, not sure when this was published but after a slew of vandalism two years ago the state came through and weld shut all the metal doors and reinforced all the wooden doors and windows to keep people out. It’s a shame, before the word spread about the place some really amazing photos could be taken, a lot of equipment, patient records, and just about everything you could imagine were left behind.
ive had the pleasure of being in here once. it would be nice to go back again sometime.
http://newkirk.biz/gallery/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=713
Hi! Just saw this article and wanted to say hello. My name is Amanda and I’m Executive Director for P.R.O.O.F Paranormal. Thanks for mentioning my team in this article. It’s an honor. I love your website!!! Our investigation of the former MTS superintendent’s home will be featured on SyFy’s new show Paranormal Witness premiering in September. Be sure to check it out! Happy Hunting!
http://www.facebook.com/teamproof
I worked for 5 years as a technical writer for UConn Engineering at that site, where one building was taken over by the Precision Manufacturing Center and the Environmental Research Institute. Half of our building was offices and labs, and the other was suitably ruined and dusty (doors locked). Rumors went around that one wandering employee found a room with paddled walls and manacles, and a story went the that the departing staff of the old mental institutions wrote chilling parting messages on the blackboards. I assume these are partly exaggerated facts going through the legend process. My colelagues and I did wander around a large dark, duty auditorium with a stage — one’s voice echoed very dramatically in there from the stage. Taking a lunch-hour walk around the grounds’ abandoned buildings (now many are being used) was definitely a Lovecraftian experience! Delicious scenery for this here fantasy writer, any way.
My late Aunt was placed in this school, because in the 1940s unwed mothers-to-be were labelled “mentally defective”, their children taken from them at birth. Trying to track down what happened to these babies has proven to be very difficult. I’d like to see more original pictures of the buildings, inside and out, before they deteriorated.
Linda – the files of the patients are held by the states archives, you should be able to find some information on if she was there for real.
http://www.cslib.org/archives/finding_aids/RG170_001.html
http://www.cslib.org/agencies/mansfieldstatetrainingschool.htm
@ amanda and P.R.O.O.F just finished watching syfys paranormal witness and the show is why I got curious and googled MTS
Hello people…I just saw a story about the Mansfield School on syfy on Sept. 28, 2011 and from Amanda from PROOF, is this story really true on paranormal witness..It scared the Hell out of me !!!!! I just need to know if this scary stuff is really true and to be believed of is it just good Television ?? Now just for the record Paranormal Witness must step up their game and show more real evidence such as real video or snapshots, pictures or more tangible stuff to back up their stories if this is in fact real stuff that actually took place…COME ON NOW DON’T BE LIKE ALL THE OTHER SHOWS….GET REAL PROOF !!!!!!!!!
I do love Paranormal witness but it is missing real proof…show us real photos or videos to back up these well told sories, ok .
Hi guys I jsut saw the show that alice saw on paranormal witness, and would like to know if that story is true!!
just watched it, wished we could see more about the house and stuff, more than anything about the little girl that died.
thanks!!
hi loved the show r u gys actors caus u made up the vids be real come on know bu it did freak me out how the bones where descoverd i herd noises oh snap help jk {just kidding} but did hear real noises ;]
i just watched paranormal witness, and i was interested to find out more, so of course i googled the place. but from what i can find online none of the stuff seems to stand true :/ oh well the show sure scared the hell out of me, but more proof from the home owners end would have been really cool!
Wow, I’m freaked out!!! Just watched paranormal witness on SyFy. If it’s a true story, in which I’m pretty convinced that it is, some real documentation would really be the icing on the cake!!!
yeah i just saw the show as well, i started looking to see if there was anything that documented the murder and ra** in the house but came up empty, if anyone can find that i would love to know where, it made my heart pound but made me mad as well, i wouldn’t live there with my babies, thats just putting them at risk for god knows what if any of the stories are true.
like the lady’s have said i would like to see more pics and videos like syfy’s ghost hunters.but still love the show
http://mansfield.htnp.com/2010/01/30/is-a-former-mts-patient-haunting-her-home/
Interesting site, might answer a few questions for ya’s!
Man I love my DVR. I just watched tonights episode of PW and I don’t know if my feelings are right or not but if they are I for one would love to stay in the house from Dusk til Dawn. I would like to see PROOF or GH go in and record all that happens and show us what they find or better yet what finds them. October is just around the corner so come on people get on it talk about a great Halloween program. I do feel sorry for all the evil that was put onto the people who resided there and were treated so badly.
I watched the Paranormal Witness show and Im really confused. I looked up the Mansfield School and theres no information about a family moving in and renovating the place… The show made it seem like this family has been there a few years, and at the end the lady confirmed she was not leaving. So is this clearly just fake?
I totally believe this happened. I grew up only a few miles from the training school. Several of my family members had worked there during my childhood. All of them for very short periods of time because they could not deal with the poor treatment of the patients. One of family members was a nurse there and spoke several times of the horrible injuries she treated. I have been in the auditorium several times as a child. They showed movies for some of the cottege clients on Fridays and employees families were allowed to attend. The last time I was at the auditorium was in 1986 when my school held the 8th grade graduation there because it was the only auditorium large enough to have it. The place always gave me the creeps. As a child I wouldn’t even go to the bathroom there because I was scared. a family member worked there until he retired in the maintainence dept. but I have never heard him say anything to do with the place. I have often wondered if he ever saw anything. I lived in a house on the property in 1989 for a few months and felt several unexplained cold spots, shivers and slight touches, but never any evil. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind this story is totally REAL
@Omar Estrada the house was part of the property, but is not on what most people consider the campus. It is slightly down the road. If you watch the end of the show it is very obvious what house it is. it is on Rt 32 not on Rt 44 where the main campus of Mansfield Traning School was.
@ Omar Estrada there really isn’t much online about the school. It’s one of Connecticut’s dirty little secrets! There are several houses along Rt 32 and Rt 44 that were part of MTS, but in the last few decades have been sold off to individuals and remodeled, restored or refurbished.
Oh ok well that definitely makes absolutely more sense! Thanks so much Melonie for clearing that up. It would be amazing to stay in that place. The lady said if no one belived her to stay in her house… I wanna get in contact with her and stay there!
I just watched Paranormal Witness as well and a few things bothered me after looking additional info online. A couple different websites state that Mansfield Training School was added to the NRHP (National Registry of Historic Places) in 1987. I find it hard to believe that the broker selling the house “lost the records” and did not know this information, especially since according to numerous websites the school remained active until 1993, just one year before this family moved in. It is my personal opinion that the broker did know about the property’s history but intentionally omitted the information. It’s difficult to sell a house (auction or not) with such a history. On a more paranormal note, I do believe this family but wonder why they have not brought any religious group in to bless the house, or someone to help exorcize the evil spirits and maybe help the non-evil spirits move on. Good luck to them.
Hello everyone! Thank you all for tuning in tonight for Paranormal Witness and the story of the Mansfield Mansion. I’m going to try to answer everyone’s questions however I’m not the homeowner so I’m not sure I’ll be able to answer them all.
First and foremost, for those of you who don’t know. I’m the Executive Director of P.R.O.O.F Paranormal. We are the paranormal team called in by the Moore family to investigate her home. We spent about a year investigating and researching her home as well as some of the buildings of the former MTS. Back in April of this year we were contacted by RAW TV, a London based production company, most famous for “Locked Up Abroad.” They were producing a new reality show called Paranormal Witness and had heard about our investigation of the Mansfield Mansion. They sent P.R.O.O.F’s Founder out to Boston and he filmed with them for 4 days. He provided them with all our pictures, videos, medical records, EVP’s and research. We were never told that we had been cut from the show until we watched it this evening and nothing, not even a mention of our investigation. It’s honestly quite a shame, not because were out to get famous (who would want to be?!? Barely anyone in the paranormal community respects Jason, Grant, Ryan, Zach etc) but because EVIDENCE is what the fans of the show want to see. Factual evidence to prove the claims is what they are asking for. Since the premier on September 7th I’ve been regularly following their facebook page, the SyFy forums, etc and like 90% of the viewers, the fans, have all expressed that they would like to see the evidence, learn more of the story, etc. Anyways, enough rambling for me. Let me answer a few questions…
@Alice: As I stated above, I absolutely agree. I think Paranormal Witness needs to step up its game and show actual evidence. That would set it aside from other paranormal shows and keep the fans tuning in each week. It’s a good show as it is, but would be a great show if they showed real evidence.
@Danielle: From your research, what did you find to not be true? I’d like to help clarify things.
@Shelley: For real documentation check our website and facebook pages. Links provided below.
@Faith: The documentation about the awful things that took place at the house were found at libraries and town halls. I don’t know if that information is available online, since it is so old. In the coming week we’ll have information posted on our website to back up those claims.
@Tia: Thanks for posting the site!
@Cherokee: We did go in and investigate the house! For evidence check our website or facebook page. And yes, a Halloween special would be awesome!
@Omar: Amy Moore purchased the home in 1994 and still lives in it to this day. It is the former superintendent home and not directly on the property of the MTS. As Melonie stated, it’s a little bit up the road however still visible from the MTS property. There are even tunnels leading from the school to home.
Well, I guess that’s about all. If anyone has anymore questions please feel free to post them here or to email me (amanda.proof@live.com)
Also, check out our website at http://www.teamproof.com and our facebook page at http://www.facebook.com/teamproof
Thanks again everyone and Happy Hunting!!
@Jenny: Yes, this story is 100% accurate and true. From our evidence, we believe the little girls name is “Jessica”. We have an EVP in which she tells us her name. As well as during many Franks Box sessions with Amy, the name Jessica has been brought up many times, especially when mentioning the little girl. Besides that, we don’t know much more but we are always researching and hope to one day learn the truth.
@Madison: The people being interviewed are not actors they are the family who experienced the hauntings. However the reenactments are done by hired actors. Yes, finding human remains in the basement was very disturbing and not to mention extremely sad.
Yep, i wouldve had ghost hunters, and ghost adventures out there checking that out!
…The show was based off of P.R.O.O.F.’s investigation almost 2 years ago. Just check out Tia’s link & it explains it all without the little twists 4 TV
…”1308 Stfford Rd. Storrs Mansfield, CT”. Just Google “Amy G Moore”.
I wonder if ahe would actually let someone stay…
…Only if it’s still haunted that is, cause P.R.O.O.F. did a “banishing” 2 try 2 rid the spirits of her home! Who knows if it worked or not but I still would like 2 stay there 4 a week.
@Melonie: what kind of horrible injuries?
…what’s funny is the “banishing” may have just made things worse! Spirits don’t like 2 b cast out like that! Soooo, on that note “sign me up”! ;P
We should all get together and write to her and ask her to let us stay. We can start our own ghost hunt
If the Super’s house is that haunted, imagine what the rest of the buildings must be like.
I believe everything as it was presented on the television series. I lived in a haunted house
myself for many years and just sold it five months ago.
Whoa, ok so last nights episode of Paranormal Witness said “The Mansfield Mansion” which from the start kinda made me step back because I live very close to Mansfield CT. I started to watch the show on youtube this morning and the first thing I see is a house that looks a lot like Mansfield Training Center’s architecture. Sure enough, they look at this house and mention a sign for Mansfield Training School inside the decayed and dirty old house.
*BLINK… BLINK*
Yes, indeed, they tried to RENT/SELL some of the buildings at Mansfield to live in! This was 1994 about a year after they closed the place. I have done a lot of UE there and have had a couple strange experiences in different buildings over the years…
Mansfield Training School: http://tinyurl.com/6gr7393
Paranormal Witness SE01 EP04 Mansfield Mansion
Part 1 http://tinyurl.com/4xkwgr4
Part 2 http://tinyurl.com/6ef4px7
Part 3 http://tinyurl.com/3u8ba72
I wonder exactly which building on the property it was… My pics of the place can be seen here: http://tinyurl.com/3kx6ftu
Enjoy
U.E.
wow! lots of comments since last night, most of which helped clear the air, i didn’t realize that it was a home on campus and not a main building.
but i wanna check out the P.R.O.O.F. page! that’s probably were most the convincing stuff is! it would be insane to stay over night! let us know if anyone manages to do so!!!
ive been to several state hospitals for the insane and have yet to ever experience any presence, cold spots, bad energy etc. and being a photographer i can tell you here and now. i have NEVER gotten pictures of orbs in any hospital ive been in.
now as far as history goes. thats a different story, all kinds of negative things happen at these hospitals, they were filled with troubled people. in a time when medical science would try anything they could think of to help these people. and alot of time these patients would hurt themselves in the process of living on these sites. its just the nature of the property. now im not saying ghosts dont exist, i have had experiences in the past. just never at a hospital or abandoned site. you can find paranormal activity anywhere.
if anyone is interested in seeing my photography of these state hospitals feel free to visit my site http:\\www.newkirk.biz
@Amanda from PROOF – Re: “Amy Moore purchased the home in 1994 and still lives in it to this day. It is the former superintendent home and not directly on the property of the MTS.”
If this was the superintendent’s home, why would there be human remains in the basement? I know SyFy probably took casual liberties with the story and made it look like Ms. Moore was living in the school itself, but I have trouble believing this now because why would a superintendent have human remains in their house, or wheelchairs and the other items found on the 3rd floor (according to the show)?
Yeah, this place is on 32 up the street and I wondered about the cremains thing myself. Never heard anything about this before last nights show in fact. I have been creeping this place for years and only had a couple strange encounters there with noises I could not account for (MTS proper) I have a yen to maybe go see her house.. I mean Hell, she makes the offer in the show huh? HA!
Anyone actually do any research on the history of the place (as in records) ?
I do not believe any of this. if there are tunnels then some one could live there and get in and out unnoticed. if there is video and pictures then why not show us some. ok, so they showed the outside and all but no real evidence. if there is so much why not show some. and why, if this woman thought it was soooooo haunted, would she bring a small child into the house. just a bunch of hooey IMO. I do believe there are things out there that can not be expained but not in that house.
Congrats to Amanda and PROOF for grabbing a great case, and doing a fantastic job with your investigation and research. I wish we had locations like this near where our group is located. After watching the show my first thoughts were, why would Amy buy a place in such deplorable condition and for what I consider an insane price at $100/K? Second, why would anyone stay there that long with such blatant activity happening? Third, why did she never call in professional help (like you)? (Now we know she finally did.)
I thought over in my head what I had seen in the show trying to make the same determination that Joseph did. In the end, we both came to the same conclusion. That the entities were not demonic. However, at least one, the one in the attic, was malevolent and angry. Key signs are the way things played out over the course of the show. Typically demonic entities will let their presence be known gradually, not blatantly on the first night someone was there as portrayed in the show. Physical attacks of the demonic type were non-existant. No one was ever physically harmed or marked, at least none of that type of activity was shown. Also the way physical objects were moved was not consistent with known demonic manipulation. With a demonic manipulation objects are typically arranged or stacked in patterns or very heavy objects are moved violently. My only concern would be that the angry malevolent entity could invite or draw such entities into the home.
I am very eager to review what evidence you captured there, how your cleansing went, and if it was effective or not. Typically the cleansing will clear most spirits out and help them to move on, provided they are not being controlled by the malevolent spirit. Even if you (the homeowner should perform the ritual for it to be affective) were able to cleanse the home of most of the spirits, I believe the malevolent one will remain and require more work to clear provided it has not opened the door to demonic entities which is a whole new can of very ugly worms.
Our group has never had to deal with a demonic entity, yet, and frankly I hope we never have to. We have a few people we might contact if the occasion should arise. You all were very brave to investigate this location with a full team before determining if the location had a demonic presence. They are not for the faint of heart, and dealing with them can be extremely dangerous, and should be left up to someone with the experience to deal with them. We have investigated locations that had been cleansed by the owner. We still picked up some activity, and believe that at least one powerful entity still remains there. I’ve seen full body apparitions, and have had things thrown at me. (The nerve!)
Our investigations and related evidence can be reviewed on our web site:
http://www.dapsdelaware.webs.com
or you can visit our Facebook (be sure to Like us) fan page at:
http://www.facebook.com/dapsdelaware (Search on Delaware Area Paranormal Society)
In closing I would like to comment on some of the oddities people have posted about, mainly the remains in the basement. One must consider the timeline. From what was portrayed in the show we are assuming that the child Jessica was not murdered in more recent years but most likely back in the early 1900′s. Back then image was everything, and a scandal was out of the question. It would be quite plausible to have the superintendent be involved in a cover up of the murder if they were not directly involved. I would also assume some possibly illegal experimentation took place on the third floor. Hence the equipment found there, and a possible explanation for the malevolent entity, who we know was murdered there. Was he the subject of some medical experiment and died? No one is likely to ever know as I am sure no official records would have been kept of that activity. If possible, PROOF should focus on researching the superintendent. Who was he, what was he all about, what kind of person was he. Did he hold a medical degree of any sort etc.
As far as calling in TAPS or Ghost Adventures, bad idea. However, hearing Aaron yell Oh My God!! as a water bottle flew past his head would me endlessly entertaining. :O)
David
Of course the story is true,If the homeowner is on the show and telling her story why would she lie? and even her daughter and the numerous others that lived with the lady!! I mean come on,it’s and old insane asylum where people were tortured and all,and the patients had electro shock and plebotomys practiced on them and the little girl that died there because of the abuse,and the old stone structure in the basement that contained cremated remains,Thats all stuff that would lead to a haunting of such sorts,Tortured patients,having all that stuff experimented on them that just calls for restless souls to haunt the premisise,not to mention that little girl that died there and the nightmare the lady was having of the little girls death,I know she’s telling the truth because god strike me dead if i’m lying i’ve had experiences with the paranormal in the house i live in,I’ve been pushed down and attacked by this spirit,and it still haunts this house to the day,so i know the lady is telling the truth,the paranormal is nothing to mess with,It can be very serious stuff man,Shit is no joke
just because it was an asylum it doesn’t mean people were tortured. library records probably have waaaay more than any of us can Google. but as far as online stuff I haven’t read more than two cases of abuse at the place. :/
so where is the video taken by the daughter…the pictures she took…
This show went to great lengths to drive home a haunting and showed us they had proof but never once did they show us….kind of fishy. If I had proof and was on national tv, I would show it.
What went on in that place is very sad and those who did it should be ashamed and punished but if there are tunnels – again – there could be old patients who were kicked out and had no place to go. Now there are people in their home and they are none to happy. Sounds like, by the end of the shows storytelling, they were learning to cohabitate in the house.
The Mansfield Training School was closed after a class action lawsuit spurred by a Department of Justice investigation that patients were neglected (mentally retarded individuals kept in the basement wearing nothing but adult diapers) , patients were unlawfully kept in the facility despite medical evaluations that determined they were not mentally impaired, and, generally, an overcrowding of patients. Google the case of Gladys Burr. Make no mistake the institution was one of many around New England forged on the back of the pseudoscience of eugenics.
I researched MTS and released part 1 of our series two weeks ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9DV7-xygsQ
In my research, I found no evidence that a child was murdered at MTS and no evidence that a body was recovered from the home of the former superintendent. If PROOF, would like to provide me that information, they can instruct me where to email them.
“Congrats to Amanda and PROOF for grabbing a great case, and doing a fantastic job with your investigation and research. I wish we had locations like this near where our group is located. ”
MTS has been padlocked and boarded up b/c ghosthunters and ghost groupies have swarmed to the grounds looking for spirits. The grounds are littered with vandalism from broken windows to door literally broken into. It is a shame that people cannot behave themselves.
Since there are details about MTS’ history reported incorrectly, I am not inclined to believe the allegations reported last night on Paranormal Witness. Thanks to that show, the Mansfield police will have extended duty in that area this Halloween.
I believe in Proof’s findings and about Amy Moore’s experiences in that house. I would really like to go on an investigation with PROOF sometime, I live in Ashford so @ Amanda what would I have to do to get involved? I used to be a paranormal investigator with NWCPS. I have a family member who worked for Mansfield Training School for almost 20 years.
@ Lyn: My family member that worked there confirmed that there ARE tunnels and that he experienced some strange experiences in numerous buildings there. He was actually someone who had seen clients being abused and reported them. A lot of things went on in that place and there are too many experiences that have happened to a lot of people there for it all to be just made up
@Erik The case of Gladys Burr had NOTHING to do with abuse, torture, or conditions. She filed a false imprisonment case because she claimed she was not mentally retarded but held at the institution after being committed by a RELATIVE. The only thing that proves is the justice system is a joke.
I was not aware we were going to be critiqued, but I do have to agree with your assessment. That is what separates the professional groups from the millions of paranormal wannabe’s and basic ghost hunter crazy’s out there. PROOF was invited by the client, as it should be. If we were to want to try our hand at investigating there without being invited, we would attempt to contact the homeowner or other persons in authority and gain proper permission. Again, its the difference between the real professionals and all the rest who aren’t.
Sadly, the appearance of any location on national TV will trigger a ton of unwanted attention. That is the nature of the beast. The same thing happened near us when TAPS decided to do Fort Delaware, and follow up with a Halloween special. The traffic was out of control, and the town of Delaware City was full of fools for months. To this day you cannot get near the Fort without being crowded out by dozens of ghost seekers on the tours, none of which have a clue what they are doing. The only thing that keeps them in check is that the Fort is isolated on an island and guarded. We got lucky and were able to get a private tour so we could do our work, but these days the park service is more interested in milking the publicity about the location being haunted for all the money they can get so getting a private tour is no longer possible.
Of course you will not find any proof of the child’s murder. It was covered up as I surmised in my original post. The only possible was to uncover a connection is for PROOF to use the name Jessica that they got, and scour any records they can find for an admissions form for a child with that name. That would give more details to research further on and so forth. As with everything in life, there will always be bad info, wrong info and good info, its the job of the investigators to uncover the truth and weed out the rest.
Lastly, a comment on the use of original content. In some episodes of PW they have used a ton of it. I agree, the more the better. Not all original material can be used. Shaky camera shots, poor lighting, background noises and other contamination will ruin a ton of otherwise good evidence or make it not presentable on TV. I am curious as to why the producers did not use more original PROOF evidence shots aside from the thought that they didn’t want to have to pay for it, maybe PROOF can clarify. In the end if the real evidence supports what happened and was experienced, and it is faithfully reproduced when needed, then there is no lack of validity to it. Just be glad they are not taking thumb rubs on EVP recorders, crew thumps, and stomach growls, and presenting it as voice evidence.
i am watching the show now the house is not the school building it may have been where a doctor or manager of the school lived.. it could have been this location but the show give a different address blackcreek dr??? could not find it tho
“@Erik The case of Gladys Burr had NOTHING to do with abuse, torture, or conditions. She filed a false imprisonment case because she claimed she was not mentally retarded but held at the institution after being committed by a RELATIVE. The only thing that proves is the justice system is a joke.”
@David. Gladys was committed by her relatives, both sisters and signed off by a doctor who was a relative, but she was evaluated by staff at MTS numerous times and determined to have an IQ well above the limit considered for mental retardation. You are correct that this is not a case of abuse, torture, or bad conditions, though Ms. Burr went on record about what happened in the basement of Wallace House. But her case is just as inflammatory as the Dept of Mental Health did not do their job in properly evaluating their patients. Ms. Burr did not belong in the institution according to their standards, and had no legal right to keep her there. The relatives who committed her were long dead when her suit was finally filed. Ms. Burr’s case is one of many sad stories behind the walls of MTS.
You need to provide some evidence of a murdered child before you make that allegation. If you don’t know the name, how can you even connect it to MTS. Where is the police report that remains were removed from the property? There must be something there no? And you can’t use the name Jessica as connective tissue. Spectral evidence hasn’t been used since the Salem Witch trials. No court or person of reasonable intelligence can accept such information.
I am not criticizing your organization. I have no idea how much of the content your group contributed and how much SyFy contributed on their own. I can only judge what I saw on television and critique that material. With no evidence of a murdered child and no evidence of a body found at the house (I would welcome something to be proven wrong on this point), I can only conclude that the connection to MTS presented on the show to be without merit.
“My family member that worked there confirmed that there ARE tunnels and that he experienced some strange experiences in numerous buildings there. He was actually someone who had seen clients being abused and reported them. A lot of things went on in that place and there are too many experiences that have happened to a lot of people there for it all to be just made up”
And this how Mansfield Training School turns into Danvers or Norwich State Hospital.
Crickey. Everyone needs to relax. The Department of Justice investigated MTS, there was a class action lawsuit, and the institution was shut down because of abuse and neglect of their patients. The Burr lawsuit opened the door to huge settlements against the state for poorly managed patient evaluations.
I believe in Proof’s findings and about Amy Moore’s experiences in that house. I would really like to go on an investigation with PROOF sometime, I live in Ashford so @ Amanda what would I have to do to get involved? I used to be a paranormal investigator with NWCPS. I have a family member who worked for Mansfield Training School for almost 20 years.
@ Lyn: My family member that worked there confirmed that there ARE tunnels and that he experienced some strange experiences in numerous buildings there. He was actually someone who had seen clients being abused and reported them. A lot of things went on in that place and there are too many experiences that have happened to a lot of people there for it all to be just made up
“And this how Mansfield Training School turns into Danvers or Norwich State Hospital.Crickey. Everyone needs to relax. The Department of Justice investigated MTS, there was a class action lawsuit, and the institution was shut down because of abuse and neglect of their patients. The Burr lawsuit opened the door to huge settlements against the state for poorly managed patient evaluations.”
@Erik Kubik : Oh I am relaxed. I was responding to something someone had posted about not believing that there were tunnels. If you want to compare it to those places, thats fine, I was just stating some facts after having a relative who worked there for almost 20 years. Even still not everyone was abused and not everyone that worked there was an abuser. The point is that I believe that there is paranormal activity in those buildings.
You are free to believe whatever you wish. I respect your beliefs about the paranormal activity though I disagree with them. I actually believe the school is creepy enough b/c of its sorted past and does not require ‘ghost’ stories to enhance this reputation.
I have not seen direct evidence of tunnels, but have heard the stories. There is a sidewalk near Storrs which has caved and was subsequently filled in with stones. Obviously, there was an underground opening which the stones buried. Was it a tunnel? It is possible. This area will be viewable in thedevilshopyard’s second video on MTS.
Hey everyone! It’s Amanda from PROOF! I’m at work and on my cell phone so its difficult to respond to everyone but I promise to come on tonight to address all the questions, comments and concerns. Thank you.
@Amanda. I really would like you to address the body in the basement. I have found no documentation that a cremated body was removed from a body in Mansfield, CT during the time period in question. Could you please provide a link to such documentation or provide evidence that this occurred?
I would like too know was the remains of that little girl found in the house or not? because the story behind this school interests me very much. I have been going through a personal haunting of my own and so im very interested in this story.
@Amanda: What happened with the “banishing” & did it work? Has P.R.O.O.F. heard from Amy recently? Does she still have activity in her home? I would like to know please…because I would pay Amy to come stay at her house for a week with no refunds!!!! Only if it’s still active that is?
I’m not a skeptic by any means & do believe that if I had my own personal experience in Amy’s home it would reassure me that hauntings really do exist. Seeing/personal encounters is believing & believing is proof that’s good enough for me! Other than that there all just a bunch of ghost stories that are passed around the camp fire at night!
I’m in the process of starting a journal/book on my own personal experiences of haunted locations all over the U.S. & Amy’s home would be a great place to start.
If possible could you please E-mail me at “kennypichette@live.com” with some info on what I need to do to be able to get in & document/investigate haunted locations all over the U.S. for my journal/book from you & P.R.O.O.F.’s perspective, not just the basic information that I can easily google. Other than research…where do I begin? Once you have E-mailed me…we will talk more about everything privately. Thank you
I would like to say that I enjoyed the show. It’s great that she learned the history of her home. Even if you purchase a new home you never know what happen there before you purchased it or moved in.
I was wondering about this place. I want to bring my paranormal group out there to check the place out. If someone can send me any info my email is djmixakilla@yahoo.com Beyond Life Paranormal Research Director Russ
I enjoyed the show and reading the many responses and looking at the different links. There are some issues and inconsistencies.
@Erik, your posts are confusing. If PROOF got the name Jessica in an EVP session for a little girl they think may be the one killed there, that is a key piece of evidence and can be used to research names in records in an attempt to find answers to whether she even existed and go from there. Your talk of Spectral evidence makes no sense. Obviously you’ve not done much investigative work. No one is specifically accusing anyone of anything so chill out. Its just an idea being presented. Look at it from the flip side, just because you cannot find evidence, doesn’t mean it never happened. As was mentioned, cover ups and secrecy were rampant back then so anything was possible. If you did some serious research you would discover that patients were also kept at the superintendents house.
@Amanda I am not comfortable with this cleansing. On your web site I believe that it is Joseph who states that “it is a P.R.O.O.F policy, only a certified parapsychologist may conduct these sorts of rituals”. This is blatantly incorrect. Only the home owner can perform the ritual, and it must be done in the proper manner for it to be effective. They do not have to be a parapsychologist, and parapsychologist’s do not study cleansing or exorcisms. Further, a cleansing will not remove a demonic entity. As I think is was David who said he did not think by what they showed on the program that the entity was demonic, I have to agree, they showed nothing to support that theory. Joseph said the same thing originally, but then on the web page he has an alleged bad attach encounter in the basement during his cleansing attempt which should have failed completely because it was done improperly. I cannot see how Amy’s home could possibly be cleansed and free of all entities.
As for the arguments about the insignificant tunnels I will say this. Just about every institution built in this time period had miles of tunnels that connected just about every building in the complex. Look at what you see on TV on the paranormal shows. How many times have Ghost Adventures teams or TAPS teams investigated “the tunnels” when locked down in an old asylum or mental facility? Plenty. I actually work in a complex that used to be a mental facility. I have seen the tunnels and have been in them. I have seen underground experimentation rooms where they conducted experiments on people. I can go from building to building without seeing the light of day. So it is quite possible tunnels existed at MTS. This would be easy to confirm by any investigator. Do some research and find someone to contact from the facility who would know. An ex maintenance worker is a prime example. Or get proper permission to enter a few buildings and head to the basements and look for the portals.
Good thread, great conversation and reading.
Joe
Maybe it’s like Amanda said, all their work was left out when the other company aired the show………
“They sent P.R.O.O.F’s Founder out to Boston and he filmed with them for 4 days. He provided them with all our pictures, videos, medical records, EVP’s and research. We were never told that we had been cut from the show until we watched it this evening and nothing, not even a mention of our investigation.”
Found these photos of the house/apparitions….
http://www.teamproof.com/gfe/index.php?dir=1308+Stafford+Rd.+Mansfield%2C+CT&by=date&order=asc
Found the house on Google Earth and Bing’s Zillow (search 1308 Stafford Rd, Storrs Mansfield, CT) if this is the house, you can see where tunnels might have been or at least a pathway connections. Someone asked about the remains and upstairs equiptment. Well maybe this person that owned the house (superintendents house) was connected in someway to early 1800 (since the house was built then) work with patients. Then when they built all the new facilities that upper room was not ever cleared/cleaned out and the cremains where left in the basement. Just a thought.
Correction……..
I ment to say the house was connected in someway to early 1900 (the house was built in 1893).
Don’t know who built the house, but George H. Knight (1886-1912) was Superintendent during the time the house was built. Maybe he has something to do with all of this.
http://www.cslib.org/agencies/mansfieldstatetrainingschool.htm
An afterthought.
@Erik Kubik: I want to clarify that it was not a body found in her basement. Nor was it complete bone matter like the television show portrayed. What was found in Amy’s basement was what appears to be cremated remains. If you have ever seen a cremated ashes before you’ll know that small bone fragments are still visible to the naked eye. What was found was pretty much like ashes except the fragments were a bit larger in size. Amy & PROOF members decided it was best to contact the state police department as well as off duty fire fighters to help remove the cement slab as well as property analyze the material within it. We were told it looks to be cremated ashes and that the state police department was bringing it to the state pathologist for evaluation of its origin. We, PROOF, have not received any results yet. People we have spoken to about it suggest that because MTS was once state run, it may be a cover up. We have no comment on that. I do have pictures of the matter found within Amy’s basement and we will be posting pictures of it on our facebook page. Also, there are definitely tunnels located beneath MTS. I have personally been in them. They are old, dangerous and have potential to cave in but I’ve seen them and I know they are there. Could you please email me at amanda.proof@live.com I would like to continue to answer your questions and concerns in a private conversation. Thank you.
@Jerri: I am sorry to hear that you are currently going through a haunting. If you ever need any help from PROOF please do not hesitate to contact us anytime.
@Kenny: The banishing was not successful in our initial attempt however we do believe it was successful during our second go at it. We however, chose along with Amy to not banish all spirits from her home. We decided that because there are many good spirits there that call the Mansfield Mansion home that we would only banish the malevolent ones. Her house is still active and it is not to say that the malevolent spirits are not laying dormant. Only time will tell. Yes, PROOF does regularly speak to Amy. Besides our quarterly visits to her home we have maintained a respectful friendship. We are actually meeting up with her next week for lunch to discuss some possible paranormal events that will be held monthly at her home. We will keep everyone posted with the information as we know it. PROOF Founder Joe is in the last stages of writing a paranormal book as well touching on investigations that he’s done independently and with PROOF. Amy’s house is included. I will email you this evening Kenny!
@ Russ: I will be emailing you this evening also!!
@Jayme: Please email me at amanda.proof@live.com Thank you!
@Lyn: We feel the same way. All audio, video and photographic evidence captured by PROOF and the Moore family was handed over to RAW TV. We spoke with one of the producers this morning and we were told that it was not shown because there was “no time” and because they felt that the EVP’s were vile and had swears in them. Yes, some did but there were also some very clear class “A” EVP’s that had no swears in them, such as “I let the children burn.” It’s a shame that SyFy and RAW TV chose to leave out the evidence.
@David: Thank you. We do feel very privileged to have been given the opportunity to investigate Amy’s house. It’s truly an honor to us. From PROOF’s investigation we personally believe there to be a demonic spirit once inside the home. The television show had to put 15 years of living into the home into less than an hour. Things did happen progressively. But of course, we may be wrong. The spirit may have only been malevolent. And there was a physical attack, to PROOF’s founder in the basement during the first banishing. There were MANY personal experiences from PROOF members during our investigations of the home. Apparitions, illnesses, moving objects, etc. I would love to talk to you more in depth, from one investigator to another. I will be most definitely checking out your website and facebook page. If you would, please email me at amanda.proof@live.com. Thanks for your great comments David!!
@Shannon: As you have probably read from many other posts, MTS was at one point not the best place to be in. I don’t want to make accusations or point fingers so I won’t but there have been many suggestions of abuse, murder, rape, etc within the walls of the school. It’s rumored that some former superintendents, back in MTS’ early days would bring their “work”home with them.
I hope I answered everyone’s questions. If you have any other questions, comments and concerns please ask. PROOF’s investigation of the home is an open book and we have nothing to hide. Hope everyone has a wonderful night!!
@Joseph: Could you also please email me at amanda.proof@live.com. I like where this conversation is going and I would like to hear more of your opinions and theories. I love learning new things about the paranormal and would like to see what I can learn from you. Thanks!
I would like to see ghost hunters check it out,. I believe in ghosts, spirts and I would love to go there and walk through it,” LOVE IT : it sounds so exciting.. get ghost hunters and get the proof..
@Stacy: When you watch Ghost Hunters, how much evidence do you really see? Honestly? Not much, right? Not bashing them or any other television based paranormal team but sometimes they give us “non TV teams” a bad reputation. PROOF investigated the Mansfield Mansion. I will stand tall in saying, we are just as good as TAPS. We have evidence. The proof is on our website and facebook page.
@joseph. You are welcome to your judgements of my investigative skills. Since you know very little about it, they carry about that much weight.
Now to the meat of your post. A name derived from an EVP session, psychic walk through,ect is a type of spectral evidence. It does not in any sense of reason, legal or philosophical, establish a connection to 1) the first name of the person allegedly found in the basement or 2) the name has any connection to the school at all. You are more than welcome to search hospital records for a ‘jessica’ ( you will probably find many) who may have died at the facility at a young age (much less likely). Frankly, even if you get a hit, there still is no direct connection between the name, the patient, and the house. The only tangible, forensic connection to the house are the alleged cremated remains. Find the identity of the remains (if they exist—I have my doubts), then one can establish a connection to the hospital and support an accusation of wrongful death. Right now, there is a very pointed allegation against the school, the former superintendent, and the State of Connecticut for which I can find no record. I again ask PROOF for evidence that a body was found in that house and that it was removed by the state police.
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And this is the broth through which the ufology movement has cooked for decades. If someone is going to publicly accuse an individual, an organization, or an institution of murder and the conspiracy to cover it up, there should at least be some reproducible evidence to make that claim. Your logic is so circular, it admits any possibility for any accusation for which no evidence has been presented. Isn’t it more likely if there is no evidence of a murder/body in the basement, then perhaps it just didn’t happen.That it was made up……. didn’t the Lutz family make up 30 days of ghost stories to sell a few million books?
I would just like PROOF to clear up these inconsistencies. If they have the research of a body removed from the house, it would be in all our best interests to make that public.
@Amanda. Please link your evidence. Much obliged.
@Erik: On Monday, PROOF members will go to the State Police Dept and request the records of us calling them to report what we feel is cremated remains in the basement. Hopefully that will clarify for you all the inconsistencies.
Ok, this is what PROOF has on their website:
“As for what was believed to have been human remains found in the basement, P.R.O.O.F contacted the State police and had the “buried Materiel” analyzed nevertheless no reports have been sent back confirming its true contents. I hope that this helps!”
So the Paranormal Witness program was incorrect to assert that bones were recovered from the ‘buried material.’ In fact, PROOF does not even say that the material was composed of human remains. I still would like to see some proof that the material was collected by the State Police.
“I’m pleased that you brought up the topic of visiting the Mansfield haunting. P.R.O.O.F and the Moore family have been discussing the possibilty of hosting monthly over night paranormal investigations for the public”
And this is what this might be all about.
@Erik: The link to our pictures is http://www.facebook.com/teamproof and our website is http://www.teamproof.com
As we have stated previously, we signed a contract with RAW TV and handed over our evidence. Until we know for sure that we are able to publicly release them again without legal ramifications we will only post whatever evidence is already posted. We don’t need to make you believe us. Because we and the family were there, experienced it and know it’s true validity. We are not in the business of arguing over actualities, we simply take the believers with the non believers and move on.
@Amanda
That is a start. The outcome of the analysis will of course be essential. Clearly if the State police felt a homicide occurred (which they would have if bone fragments were found), then the house would have become a crime scene and a proper forensic investigation would have taken place.
I would like you to comment on the scene in Paranormal Witness in which someone picks up a fragment of vertebrae among the debris. Did that actually happen and did the actual material contain human bones?
I think PROOF sounds like an honest group of people and just as good as the Ghost Hunters. I would really like to investigate with you guys sometime.
@ Erik Kubik: It is also very possible that there was remains found in the basement. They didn’t try to say they knew for a fact that it is a girl named Jessica, but it is there best guess for the evidence they collected and what was found.
I have had many paranormal encounters and think that some people are too close minded and always want to dismiss everything as being made up. I have seen the dark figure of what looked like a man at the Benton Homestead in Tolland, lived in a old house that I would hear my name being called and see a dark shadow go by in the corner of my eye, I have a evp from a cemetary in Canaan of a man saying “Jack” I think that personally knowing a relative and his friends that worked at MTS is enough for me to be able to say I believe there is spirits in MTS. Those are all people who wouldn’t make something like that up.
@Jayme: Thank you for your kind words. Please email me, we would like to speak with you about joining us on an investigation.
@Erik: you found that info on P.R.O.O.F.’s website…that the Moore family have been discussing the possibilty of hosting monthly over night paranormal investigations for the public? Nice, I think I’m gonna check out that site because I would like to spend a couple nites in one of the spare bedroom’s & a couple nites in the attic & finally if I can last long enough, a couple nites in the basement & do my own investigations for my journal/book! I’m dying to have another personal experience…what adrenaline rush!
@ Amanda, I just sent you an email. Hope to hear from you soon
@Jayme The statement by PROOF says it all. If it was not certain by their examination that it was human remains then SyFy had no reason to show a human vertebrae inside that box in the basement. The newspaper articles and assertion that a child was murdered at the hospital also were not true. There is no record of that ever happening at MTS.
Erik please do not say what is true and what is not true. You have not investigated the home nor met myself, PROOF or the Moore Family. You have no idea what is true versus what is false. PROOF won’t respond to any more of your negative comments.
@Amanda: I sent you an email about an hour ago. I hope to hear back from you too. I got much more to share with you about a bunch of other haunted locations I’ve visited & had experiences in the past as well, like Carousel Gardens a restaurant in Oxford, CT which has been closed & reopened several times due to paranormal activaty, which is permantly close now due to being deemed as haunted! As well as seeing a full body apparition at a friends house, not to mention the house was an very old house that we could lift up floor boards & there were old slave tunnels that ran under the house! I got more real experiences I’ve encountered as well…
@Amanda
I honestly have nothing to say about the experiences of the Moores. I have my own opinion about that, but that is not germane to the discussion. My issue is the allegation of murder against MTS and the superintendent. As I initially stated, I take no issue with your group b/c I don’t know the details of your evidence though I asked you to provide what you have found in regards to the remains. My gripe is with the show b/c that is what I and many others watched: there was a direct accusation of murder at the command/hand of the superintendent. There were also false mentions of murder at MTS: there is no record of any child being murdered at the facility. I don’t accept suggestions of cover up. I have spoken to three ex-employees who said they knew no case involving the murder of a child by staff or patient. I categorically reject this notion unless some evidence is provide.
As for the remains, your own website refers to it as ‘burial’ material and demonstrates an uncertainty as to whether it is human remains. This is in stark contrast to the television program which clearly shows a human vertebrae inside the box.
In both cases, the show has misled people. I make no judgements against PROOF.
And if Joseph is part of your organization, yes, I have conducted my own investigations, but never paranormal investigations. I take umbrage with the use of ‘professional’ when it comes to such groups.
Kenny, I received your email and will respond within 24 hours. Thank you.
…Correction, Carousel Gardens is actually in Seymour, CT & has a very large sign reading “House for sale” in front posted on a tree since 2008. All kinds of reports have been made from glasses & silverware flying across the place while people were dinning there. Who ever purchases that property next will be in for a big surprise…they won’t last long! Still it may not compare to Ms. Moores home though since the histories may be different.
@Amanda: OK, thank you
How come there isn’t any real proof for ghosts?
I couldn’t find any Videos on any online streaming services about a person/group who spent a night in ANY house/place and took videos of things that are happening.
A zillion of reports and so called evidence are out there. How come NOTHING is real?
I want to know more about the little girl that was killed there. How old was she? How was she killed? If paranormal witness was accurate with the description, that was very sad that she was washing her hands and then the next thing you know shes on the floor! Please explain!
@Ashlee That is kind of the problem. There is no record of a child murder at MTS. And even PROOF admits on their site that the material collected was ‘burial material’ and not human remains. Clearly, SyFy took liberties with the truth when they showed human bone material collected from the house. Hopefully, PROOF provides documentation that the material was collected and, if true, the State police provide the test results. This will answer a lot of questions b/c it isn’t certain to me that any human remains were in that house.
Just to clarity, PROOF refers to the material as ‘burial material’ and not necessarily human remains. I don’t mean to infer that PROOF believes it was not human remains. It is clear they don’t know that answer.
@Erik, its obvious that you are clueless when it comes to paranormal investigations and/or investigations of very old incidents particularly those involving forensics, and thank you for admitting same. You continue to badger the postee’s on this thread about evidence they collected being essentially worthless because, as you put it, they obtained it while collecting paranormal evidence and is therefore Spectral in nature. Then you turn around and say that one needs to make a direct connection to possible remains to any Jessica and any murder. Starting with the only piece of evidence you have, the name Jessica, and using that to do research in an attempt to connect the dots IS doing exactly that. With incidents this old, getting all of the answers 100% is impossible and not expected. You seem to be getting hung up on this being some sort of official investigation that will lead to indictments and a trial. This is simply groups looking for answers to the paranaormal. Remains found at a location are a big indication as to the possible cause of a haunting. They need to determine who the remains belonged to, how they died, and what might have happened to them during their lifetime. It may well end up being that she died of natural causes and was legally creamated, who knows. Its just as likely she met a horrible demise as depicted in the show and reasonably supported by the proof of mistreatment at MTS. If that is the case, that a Jessica or someone else met their demise at the hands of another, then it is believed in paranormal circles that these spirits cannot cross over for various reasons and “haunt” a location. So based on what was in the show, not what anyone here put on the table for discussion, suggesting maybe foul play was involved is a perfectly sound subject for discussion and not at all accusational.
Speaking of, your constant accusations of accusations is wearing thin. NO ONE ON HERE in any post has accused anyone of murdering anyone. A simple suggestion was made as one possible answer to the mystery in question regarding human remains allegedly found at the location. You need to learn the difference between an actual outright accusation and a simple suggestion put on the table for discussion and stop harping on it. You have already alienated PROOF and probably another postee or two including myself, and made the thread miserable.
PS: I am not the PROOF member Joseph.
What is the address of the house shown on paranormal witness?
@Proof, you guys really need a copy editor on your site.
@everyone_else I have creeped around this place (MTS) quite a bit in the past inside and out and only had a couple times where I thought I wasn’t alone. Frankly the so called evidence on the proof page is photographically tenuous at best and I find it convenient that the EVP sessions are not online. A second concern that I have is the divergence between stories of the show and proof on the house in question (Mansfield Mansion) I live not ten minutes from the place and have seen the reno’s going on over the years. In fact, I have creeped around the lot across the street because they have some old barns that I shot (photographed) in the past. However, never once did I hear about this place being haunted in this way… Until now… Rather dramatically.
Which, I might evoke you all to go to Proof’s page and take a read. The style of writing attempts to be evocative and uses alliterations like “the air was heavy” I’m sorry, but going into it like that really just makes one think you already have a preconceived notion that the place is haunted. So where’s the skepticism? Where is the empiricism in your evidence? Speaking of this, what use is a 1.5k jpg file that is so small that if you increase its size at all you get a bitmap mess instead of an image?
But I digress…
If indeed something has gone down at this house, then I hope that they come through it ok. However, at this point, between the two accounts and the way that Proof presents itself and its findings as well as NOT obfuscating the houses actual address on their site, makes me think that perhaps this is a ploy to make money somehow.
Just saying..
U.E.
Just finish seeing this PW episode and it scared the BLANK outta me. I say send TAPS! Sorry they ARE the best Paranormal Team out there. N reading some of the comments with the mention of not sending them, well I’m sure they don’t need this investigation. They’ve got where they’re at today because of great investigating. It’s sad to see others banish them (hum) I say of jealousy. They don’t call any other “non TV teams” out get over it it’s life! I can’t wait to see their LIVE show on Halloween.
Wow some people seem like they are just on here to argue. I mean why are certain people bashing PROOF? They are very cordial in there responses to everyone. @ Urban Explorer, there has been plenty of reports of hauntings going on in the Mansfield Training School buildings, so why is it so suprising to you that this house is haunted. Just cause you never heard of it? I’m sure there are lots of haunted places you have never heard of. If you look at PROOF’s website you will see that they investigated lots of other places too and have plenty of evidence. I can tell you that this isn’t a “ploy to make money” . I know people personally (relatives and friends) who have had experiences on the Mansfield Training School propertys.
@Jayme
Reports but not proof of… In this case and the others on their site the evidence is not really convincing whatsoever. Their writing skill as well is a little too dramatic to evince an actual methodical examination of a place than just a “good story”
Just as well, I also said that I had had what I could classify as experiences, but since I have no proof, I cannot make the claim the place is indeed haunted.
U.E.
Just finished reading all the comments. My son and I watched PW this morning. We were both intrigued by the story. I am very familar with most of the U.S Mental institutions. I have researched many of them. I had never heard of M.T.S. I am very curious about some of the reports of abuse and experiments performed on the patients. During the time these institutions were known for trying different experiments not so much because they were trying to be cruel but because they were trying to help these people. Grant it sometimes they went to far. I think a lot of people forget that during that time a lot of the “Mental” issues people had were new to the Medical field. Things we see as normal now were not then. I tried to google M.T.S. and found very little. Other than a brief history. I would love to know more so if anyone has anymore history on the place other than the basic stuff that would be great.
@Amanda. What a bummer they didn’t air your segment! I would love to know more details. I like the show but like others I would like to see more real evidence and and not so much the “Hollywood” aspect of it. It just makes me think back to The Amityville Horror. Although a terrific story it was false. @ the person I believe it’s Jayme who asked why would this lady lie on the show? Well why does anyone? The Lutz family lied for years and years, got a book and a bunch of movies out of it. Money, money, money. I’m not saying she lied about what they have experienced by no means BUT theres always the chance that she fabricated some of it. Very cool house! We have a place by us thats now called 10 Wilmington place in Dayton Ohio. It used to be an Insane Asylum. It’s now a retirement home. The owner and head doctor had mansion built across the street that once housed TB patients due to lack of space in the Asylum. Another cool one is Waverly Hills. I have personally been there and LOVE it! The building itself if amazing. Danvers had a movie filmed in it I want to say early 2000 called Session 9 if you haven’t seen it go get it! Super creepy!
If GH is eyeing this one, they should take a trip. Love the show PW, it scared the bejesus out of me most of the time. I’ve had some “experiences” myself. Anyhow, would love, Love, LOVE for GH to pick this one up!
@Joseph
I find the comments made by Erik and Urban Explorer quite refreshing. You admonish Erik’s badgering of PROOF about the human skeletal evidence, and the greater implications, because “This is simply groups looking for answers to the paranaormal.” My view is that when you give your group a name, develop goals and missions, and offer your *group expertise* for public consumption then you had better be prepared to held up to professional scrutiny. Sure, its fun to surmise about all of the eery events that culminate in intense paranormal activity, but suggesting torture and murder by is pretty serious business. Particulary, if you are the living Superintendent or a close family member who can be easily tracked down by a million TV viewers. The lines are pretty easy to connect. In fact, I’m pretty sure the son of one of the Supers (mid 70′s to 80′s) posted an online response about a year and a half ago, mentioning that he lived in the house. Google, if interested. The pieces come together very easily.
On the other hand…
@Erik
Your concern over PW showing the bones in the basement does seem a tad overly serious, and you were goading a little hard (I think you’ll admit). I mean, c’mon, lets laugh a little. PW is serving up ghost stories for entertainment. What’s the reality litmus test here?
PW relates the story as told by the Witness with all of the devices and trappings to make their show a smashing entertainment success. The stories are spicy because they are held out as real events. The dramatic story presentation, and eery audio/visual effects are the icing on the cake. Is every bit of the story factual? Is the PW film staff cross-examining their Witness? Nine out of ten healthy, first-year film students would probably say, “uhm, like, sort of.” So, if the woman living in the haunted house relates that she found what looked like human bones in her basement and passed them on to the State police, then why not pass this juicy bit of the story on to the eager ghostophile TV viewing audience? And why would it be incumbent upon PROOF to conceal the woman’s statements when discussing the case?
In any case thanks for the comments. The bone-chilling unknown is half the interest in paranormal for me. The other half is the investigation, weighing evidence and theories. Luckily this thread isn’t populated with personal experiences, and queries for more information on the murdered ghost child named Jenny ;~D
@Matt I think your points are very well elucidated and make a lot of sense. If I could defend myself a bit, my confidence in the ability of others to make that leap from artistic license to truth is not as solid as yours appears to be. Having witnessed how much damage rumors and innuendo can have on a historical site (*Dudleytown, Seventh Day Baptist Cemetery, Ladd Center, West Greenwich Baptist, MTS….*), I am quite concerned when baseless rumors are birthed on the internet or, in this case, television. Not everyone who watched that show will question the truthfulness of PW and simply take the account of MTS and the “body” as proof that something criminal occurred at school. Sometimes, one has to scream “fire” or “rape” in order to get the attention of others. If I have to do that, then so be it.
Frankly, calls for TAPS to enter the property and, persumably, the school are laughable to me. I have had the pleasure to meet the heads of TAPS in an informal setting and what they told a colleague of mine (a University professor) when asked about their work cleared up a lot of the questions I had. To keep it short and simple, Ghosthunters is not only entertainment, but its purpose is to entertain and not a search for actual truth. *Wink Wink* if you can read between the lines.
I appreciate your comments and agree with almost every point that you made.
@Erik-I like the way you think, my man. I watched the Syfy show like everyone else and would love to see the actual documentation that should exist if remains were removed from the site. Not sure as to why the more you ask for what should be easily provided proof the more you are attacked or ignored. I hold nothing against the investigators that looked into the haunting, nor am I a disbeliever-I just want to see has much actual proof as possible so that I can actually buy into this haunting. Hell, one of the witnesses to events was a cop-he can’t throw us a bone?
As I’ve stated previously, I will be going to the state police on Monday and requesting the reports. Unfortunately, until then I have no physical proof to provide to everyone of the material found in the basement. Thank you.
@Amanda. Thanks for the post. Missed that you had posted that earlier, until i re-read all the posts so my apologies. I cannot seem to get into the paranormal witness link on your site, but I did see that you guys are looking to hire a forensic investigator which I think is awesome and a great addition to any paranormal research.
I just watched the show and, like all of you, googled it and ended up here. Being born and raised in Trumbull, CT (in a house with some questionable past happenings experienced first hand), went to UCONN (1996-2001) and saw the place with my own eyes while walking the “rape trail” (u have to have gone to UCONN pre-1998 to know why I’m talking about) worked as assistant art director of “Connecticut Magazine” (making 12 issues a year, plus the state’s “Vacation Guide” for the Dept. of Tourism, as well as “The Connecticut Bride”) before going to Quinnipiac Law and becoming managing partner of a firm in Norwalk. Here’s what I an tell you (as I majored in Photography, before digital cameras and photoshop became industry standard…when we needed dark rooms and noxious chemicals), graphic design, and communications sciences at UCONN, and had a friend who was a “guest” at Bergin…as well as some clients.): 1) the cemetery in Easton, CT is one of the most undisputed haunted places in the country, but you’ll never see it on one of these shows because the cops lock it DOWN from dusk til dawn now (tho I had some CRAZY sh*t happen there when I was a kid; 2) if you watch the episode of paranormal witness just prior to the Mansfield mansion about a different family with a poltergeist you will see TONS of cell phone pics and vids taken by the daughter that will turn your hair white; 3) Two of the original paranormal detectives (the warrens) are from Monroe, CT (Ed passed away, but Lorraine is still alive), and their house is a museum, where they have the REAL possessed Raggety Anne doll they saved a family from and which was the basis for “Chucky” and “Child’s Play” locked in a glass case, and it has killed at least 1 museum visitor that I know of (while it was locked in the glass case) for antagonizing it, and after the guy was killed in a freak motorcycle accident 2 minutes after leaving the house and 20′ out of the driveway, the doll had turned around in the case, which again, intentionally CANNOT be opened, and when they lectured at UCONN annually they would speak of the caretaker’s home every time, as they had investigated it; and 4) if you really want to have a guaranteed experience, brin a camera, a tape recorder, whatever, and head down Rte 25 in Monroe (just passed the Warrens actually, until you see a tiny cemetery of about 12 headstones on a hill next to the roadway; look for the PRISTINE headstone that is over 120 years old, has 4 dates on it, and bears the name HANNA CARRANA. a friend and I decided to chip off pieces of her 120 year old-yet-perfectly-white headstone and make necklaces from each piece for ourselves, ill explain the logic another day. When i mentioned it to the warrens at one if their lectures, they made me come down to monroe from UCONN to Monroe, and my buddy from SYRACUSE, and performed a ritual while we put the pieces back on, and even though they’re loose chips, they were still there 5 gets later when we went back and had never fallen off…and that’s NOTHING compared to the floating cigarette butts, the random, perfectly circular cuts on our friend’s leg while we were there once, which came out of nowhere, and disappeared just as fast when we went down the way to the Easton cemetery to see the white lady (we snuck past the cops) and the cuts vanished. So I’d yer looking for a haunt, go to Monroe and either tease the doll at Elaine warren’s house, or go find HANNA’s grave. But whatever you do, I can assure you, as a long-time resident of one of the most haunted states in the country…the Mansfield case is real, and the episode from the week before (free on InDemand under “entertainment” “free” “ScyFy” and “Paranormal Witness”
While You are bragging about CT, I’ll have you know that CA has more hauntings than any other state, but then again, it is the largest state. I live just ten minutes away from the house with the poltergeist (the one you spoke of on the previous episode) right here in CA. A few days ago I parked in front of this house. Although the house is vacant, it has many locks on it, so one can not go inside. Anyway, after being there for only a few minutes, two rocks came flying at my car, one hitting the hood and the other missing. At first I thought maybe it came from wary neighbors tired of the public coming by, but when a third rock in the front yard came straight up from the ground to land near the driveway, I decided it was time to leave.
i believe in the fact people have been tortured in these types of places , i worked in a nursing home and they treated them badly and that was just about 10 yrs ago . i also have had interactions with spirits my parents home was in the family for 5 generations ,so people sitting on the end of the bed or voices was a norm . Try moving into an apt where your spouse doesnt like ghosts and you have seen them she told them to leave and they pulled all of her shoes out of the closet as if for her to leave they were there first . it doesnt have to be old trashed out or horror to be haunted
Regarding the “Paranormal Witness” episode, the murder of Jessica, the alleged rape, and the possibility of a cover-up:
In the episode Moore is shown to have found out about the rape and the murder because of “newspaper clippings” she found (her words). If that’s true, obviously there was not an effective cover-up, so a lack of information cannot be blamed on that. The show states there is publicly accessible proof of the rape and the murder.
So – does this newspaper clipping exist or was that artistic license? Do you, Amanda, have access to this clipping? On the show, Moore claims she found it in her research at the library, so it should be pretty simple to re-find. Would you please scan it and put it on PROOF’s website? It seems safe to say that that would clear up a lot about the truth of the murder and rape claims.
I’ve searched through nexus/lexus and the historical newspaper archive. The clippings do not exist.
They were props for the show.
Sorry, type-o. Should read lexis/nexis.
Where is the evidence?
Still waiting.
And No, 1.5Kb of a file isn’t good enough.
As I have previously stated a few times now. Joseph Gallant signed a contract with RAW television and handed them the evidence. We were told to remove audio and video evidence as not to “spoil” the show. We are awaiting confirmation from them that we can re-release the evidence without legal ramifications. We are taking caution to save our butts. If your not okay with that, owell. As for the size of our pictures, or just our pictures in general… Where are your paranormal pictures? Do you have any ones to bring to the table? If your going to criticize and critique our evidence please back it up with proof of your own. Are you a paranormal investigator or just a fan of the paranormal? Or maybe your just a hater, I don’t know. What qualifications do you have?
I think anyone who has expertise in the analysis of photographic/video evidence has a right to voice an opinion on the photos from your site. There is no professional accreditation for being a ‘paranormal expert/investigator’.
Well actually there are professional accreditations for being a ghost hunter. There are many schools that offer parapsycology classes as well as schools that offer certifications. I respect your opinions on our evidence however Im still wondering, are you a paranormal investigator or a photographer? Do you believe in ghosts or are you a skeptic? Those questions are for Mr. Tal Winter also. Thanks!!
@Amanda,
Ok, now you’re getting ludicrous about this. Look, what is being called to question here is “evidence” as you put it on your own site. The so called evidence for not only the Mansfield case, but others as well. I perused your site and I made the call on your evidence, your writing skills, and your lack of scientific method period.
In short, I am calling foul on it all.
As to my “credentials” in judging evidence of paranormal activity I say this, I am a photographer, I also have a scientific background and worked in the sciences in the past, and just from the perspective of the scientific method, you are sorely lacking. You make statements of fact without there being any scientific basis for your investigations nor your so called evidence. This is why we are questioning you as well as the whole debacle that has unfolded here with regard to the Paranormal Witness show and your investigation of said same place.
It is irrelevant at this point to say that you are caught up in some legal red tape because independent investigations by individuals here are turning up contrary data to what you and the show have said. So, take a step back and think about it before digging the hole further on your credibility as well as the home owner in question. I also would hazard the statement that you are vested in this whole scenario being sensationalized because even on your site you are pimping your upcoming book.
All in all, you’re not looking too good here and frankly, now I am interesting in doing the background on the MTS history as well as this house. One person has run a Lexis Nexis and I will go one further since I live in the area. I will go to the town records and see what I can find.
When I have more I will comment.. Until then, either start using the scientific method and doing your due diligence or stop proclaiming places to be ever so haunted when you have no real evidence to back it up with.
U.E.
1st Of all, I want to say that I didn’t mean to criticize anything. Sorry if it made it that way.
Amanda, I am sure that you are doing a great job.
2nd, I am not an Investigator/Paranormal Expert (although I would really like to be one and study this field).
I live in Israel, and we don’t have any known haunted places.
Well, our country size is only 600 KM
The problem is that you see shows like: TAPS, Ghost Hunters, Paranormal Witness and Legend Quest.
I really love it and it’s a GREAT entertainment but the problem is that it’s always CLOSE to be an evidence. You don’t see a SOLID proof.
In Ghost Hunters for example, you hear them say: Did you hear this? did you hear that?
I think that in one of the episodes they actually caught a Class A EVP. Amazing (is it?).
In Legend Quest, you see Ashley say: The item is MOST LIKELY to be under this rock and etc.
It seems that all of those shows (and Amanda, I have this feeling that you don’t like it too) are mocking the Paranormal field. How can we trust them when people find all kind of flows and “Bloopers” in those shows?
If a HUGE evidence that can’t be arguable will arise, trust me, the whole world will know it.
I read some researches about how our body is functioning through FEAR, through the UNKNOWN. trust me, hallucination is a small part in it
I don’t disproof ghosts but I can’t find the evidence to BLINDLY believe in it.
As I said, I would love to get the equipment and knowledge to catch ghosts and other paranormal activities. Sometimes people say that I live in my own bubble when I talk about the Paranormal.
Millions of Millions of people telling that they saw a ghost. Maybe one of them actually saw one? and here is your proof.
So how do we prove it? It’s like dealing with people who believe in God. You can’t say that it doesn’t exist but you don’t have any proof of its existence. No?
Erik – Thanks. I knew the clips themselves were props (the photo was a picture of the actress that played the little girl), but I thought it was possible that since Moore said she found the story in a newspaper that she actually had. I’m not terribly surprised she didn’t, though.
And by the way, Maybe I didn’t understand but what @Squidge said about the newspaper.
Does it really exist or is it a “Prop” as he @Squidge said?
If it’s a real newspaper, very well. But if it’s a “Prop” then I really am afraid that Paranormal field is being Mocked.
And I really don’t like when people take a really fascinating subject and creates “Hollywood” out of it.
@Amanda
Many of these ‘schools’ that offer ‘accreditation’ also offer ‘accreditation’ for cryptozoology, UFO studies, and EVP analysis. If you want to have a discussion about what is science and what is pseudo-science, I’d be happy to have that with you off board.
Since you are trumpeting up your organization’s professional credentials, I’d like to know what they are.
@UE Spot on. I wasn’t aware of the book. So, we have paid overnight stays at the Mansfield house and now a book. hmmmmmmmmmmmmm…….Now that is PROOF.
@Erik, I hope that I could come and stay in one of those haunted houses.
Knock on wood but I hope that TAPS or Ghost Hunters or other shows like those show won’t end like in the movie “Grave Encounters”.
now THAT will be a nice PROOF
I watched the PW episode regarding the Mansfield Training School, did some googling, and found this website. I was interested to find out a ghost hunting team was able to investigate the home prior to the show being created or aired. I think it stinks that their evidence was not incorporated into the show. However, I partially disagree with Amanda’s (PROOF) comments regarding Ghost Hunters (TAPS).
I don’t think it is TAP’s that gives other ghost hunting/paranormal teams a bad name, it’s Ryan (Paranormal State) and Zach (Ghost Adventures) that do. I don’t even consider Ryan and Zach ghost hunters at all because they dramatize EVERYTHING, and have ZERO proof. The only thing Zach can prove is he screams like a 12 year old girl at a Justin Beiber concert.
TAPS DOES present evidence to either support or disprove a paranomal event. Kind of along the same lines as PROOF, no? It just seemed a bit bitter and a tingy of jealousy with the remarks posted regarding TAPS. Can there not be a mutal respect?
I do think the PROOF team DOES deserve recognition for their time spent investigating this site. As much as a fan of TAPS that I am, this team put in the time and shouldn’t be discounted. Thank you for posting the PROOF FB and website…off to do some more exploring!
@Urban Explorer: Stop hiding behind a fake name. I have nothing to hide. My name, contact information, etc are posted all over this site, PROOF’s website, PROOF’s facebook, etc. I truly don’t care what you think of PROOF or myself for that matter. I am PROUD of PROOF’s accomplishment’s in the paranormal field. I am PROUD of our investigation of the Mansfield Mansion. I don’t care if you don’t like our evidence or think were lame or whatever you think. “We don’t need to make you believe us. Because we and the family were there, experienced it and know it’s true validity. We are not in the business of arguing over actualities, we simply take the believers with the non believers and move on.” I won’t comment any further on the television show “Paranormal Witness.” As you all watched, PROOF was not included in the show. Therefore we have nothing to say about it.
@Tal: Thank you for your words. I do agree with what you said.
@Erik: I won’t comment to you anymore. I find you rude and disrespectful. I have no need to speak to you or defend myself to you.
@Lizzie: No, I am certainly not jealous of TAPS. I respect what they do because I to am a ghost hunter but I don’t respect some of things they do like you don’t respect Paranormal State or Ghost Adventures. I agree with you, Ghost Adventures especially Zach’s yelling is out of control. PROOF has a no provoking policy on our team because we find it rude and disrespectful. I simply don’t like GA because they provoke. I have to disagree with you however on Paranormal State. I really enjoy Ryan and in my opinion I think he is one of the more respectful paranormal television personalities and feel he has a true passion for ghosts and helping people. But of course, everyone’s going to have opinions on the different paranormal television shows out there. It’s all in fun and at the end of the day I respect all ghost hunters in some way or another for what they do. And I thank you for your support and kind words.
@Amanda
I think UE has questioned PROOF in a very deliberate and respectful way. I think I have as well. He has looked at your website and is not convinced by the method by which the investigation was conducted nor was he convinced by the photographic evidence.
You questioned his credentials to parry one of his criticisms. When I ask for yours, you choose to ignore me.
That says a lot about your organization.
I will await your test results and, hopefully, a list of your group’s ‘professional’ credentials.
Amanda, you are welcome. I guess that I need to see an activity, when it happens on my own eyes.
First thing is to try finding people who report about Paranormal Activities.
Wish me luck.
We thank you for your comments and questions however as I have said many, many times I am proud of PROOF’s work. I have no need to defend myself, my team or the Moore family. We experienced paranormal phenomenon at the house and we caught fantastic evidence. You have the right to your opinions. You have the right to research the claims that Paranormal Witness stated. You have the right to bash us. But I will no longer waste my time defending myself and PROOF to some “bullies” hiding behind a computer screen. Now you can say what you’d like. You can say, were ignoring questions or running away from the truth but I will no longer post on this site unless it’s to respond to someone who is in support of PROOF or has a question/comment of constructive matter. I have better things to do with my time, such as ghost hunt.
I thank everyone for the responses. May everyone have a fantastic week. Happy hunting!!
Oh and @Erik: You’ll be waiting a while for “our” test results. As I have stated previously, the Moore family called the police who came in and took samples of the matter found in the basement. It was told to PROOF that the material was being brought to the state pathologist for official results. I do not have those results in my possession. All I will be providing is the reports of the police being called and removing the material. Thank you.
@Amanda
So, in other words, you will engage in peer review. Such is part of the scientific process. Since you are not willing to engage in it, I find it difficult to accept your evidence. I doubt you will lose sleep over it, but you have have been given the chance to present what you have.
If the results do come back as ‘human matter’ , we will all hear about it. I will make my own inquires, including with the State Police, regarding this issue.
Sorry, another silly type-o.
Should read: So, in other words, you will not engage in peer review.
@Ben
I think your post speaks more about you than me, buddy.
Last I heard it was still a free country where EVERYONE is entitled to their opinions. For legal purposes PROOF is unable to post their evidence. I don’t think that is a bad thing. I’m sure PROOF did a fine job investigating. None of us were there. What’s the point in aruging? The house is freaking cool and has a seedy history. Isnt that what matters? Some people just have to be shit starters. It’s annoying.
O.M.G you people on here are unbelievable, I mean truly. My name is Barbara, yes that’s my real name!. I live on Old Colony Road in Mansfield, CT and can see the Mansfield home property from my kitchen window. @Urban Explorer, you have stated previously that you live in the area and haven’t heard anything about the haunting of Mansfield home yet I find that a bit difficult to believe, seeing that P.R.O.O.F’s investigation was plastered on the front pages of local newspapers, internet community boards, radio stations and to think of it P.R.O.O.F even hosted a lecture/Presentation and Ghost hunt at the home which also made headlines as former superintendents families attended. I do not know P.R.O.O.F personally as I’ve never had a haunted place for them to investigate but I’ve heard a lot about them and their talents throughout the surrounding towns. They do many investigations in and throughout CT and New England. I happen to know they have done many presentations and public lectures in Willimantic, Hartford, New york and throughout helping to raise money for local and national charities. I even remember a few years back they did one at the Windham Textile Mill & Museum and raised a lot of money for breast cancer awareness. I have also heard, they will be at the local soup kitchen this winter, helping out during the holidays. What makes P.R.O.O.F even more credible, is the simple fact that they do all of what they do which is alot, for nothing, just because they care. I’ve been following this thread for the past few days now and I’m disgusted. I don’t think any of you on here actually know PROOF or know what they do or what they are capable of. They are a great group of young people who have a lot of respect for their community and for the paranormal field. Someone on this thread had mentioned that the Mansfield Haunting was a hoax or for better terms an avenue to make money. This couldn’t be any farther from the truth. For those people that say P.R.O.O.F’s evidence is not convincing whatsoever, have you seen some of these shows on TV or these “paranormal websites” that claim they have paranormal photos? Give me a brake, everyone on here needs a wake up call, face reality. If you think that you have better evidence or a better sense of paranormal investigating than Id like to see it!.
@ERIK, wow good one. is the reason i didn’t get a full freak out response is because youre on the phone with the cops over an investigation you were rejected from? lol u mad over ghosts LOLOOLOL erik is one of those people who is like 40 and still tells on people. i’m taking bets on if erik was a hall monitor at his high school. MRS JOHNSON KATHY DOESNT HAVE A PASS TO GO TO THE BATHROOM!!!!!!!
well said barbara, here we have [people] who know nothing about PROOF. the owners of PROOF are some of the most selfless and giving people i’ve ever met. they dropped everything for me one weekend to help us investigate the old bacon academy high school in colchester MULTIPLE NIGHTS with their equipment JUST BECAUSE we asked them. I never even had met them before. I called and they had an opening and they came and setup shop.
This was after they had already been well known in willimantic community for doing the old textile museum investigations.
So whatever, talk about this or that but the fact is you don’t know [anything] so people that matter and are actually involved with PROOF don’t [care] about you.
Go do your own investigations …. PROOF doesn’t lie – the end.
At least theirs someone on this threat with common sense, Thanks Ben.
Calling people you disagree with “fat nerds” (OH DEAR GOD NO. NOT FAT. ANYTHING BUT THAT) and making nonsensical “zingers” about knocking out walls in your apartment counts as “common sense” these days?
@Barbara
I respect your comments, Barbara: very well spoken and non-antagonistic. I do however take umbrage with one particular comment:
“What makes P.R.O.O.F even more credible, is the simple fact that they do all of what they do which is alot, for nothing, just because they care.”
Good works does not equate with scientific credibility. They may be good people, but that carries no weight in the light of peer review.
“For those people that say P.R.O.O.F’s evidence is not convincing whatsoever, have you seen some of these shows on TV or these “paranormal websites” that claim they have paranormal photos?”
The problem is that paranormal evidence, in general, does not pass the scientific or, even, criminal standard. Photographs can be faked; voices can be added to EVPs (or noise filtered so that a random sound appears to be human)….ect. Most of this evidence is thought to be spurious b/c there are so many charlatans in the field. In fact, I caught a group of Maine Ghost Hunters faking ghost photos at the Old Burying Point Cemetery in Salem on Saturday. I videotaped two of their members in action. It happens. And unless a paranormal group offers a time stamp videotape of its own investigating process; there will always be questions of tampering and fakery.
I have no idea with PROOF. I am not accusing them of anything, but the money angle appears to be there.
Dear Mr. Kubik,
Please post the video evidence of your accusation or remove this accusation from this thread.
Thank you,
Kat
Maine Ghost Hunters
@Kat
I do have the footage. Feel free to email me and request a view.
As per my response via private e-mail, please send the footage to katm@maineghosthunters.org with the accusatory portion regarding the faking of photographic evidence highlighted/accentuated.
Thanks,
Kat
Maine Ghost Hunters
I see it is pointless to argue with those who believe their self fulfilling prophecies and lack the critical thinking skills to question things. Though, bringing it down to the “STFU” level really says it all..
U.E. aka Scot A Terban.. So as to not hide my name under a pseudonym when linking my name to the posts by hyperlink… OOOOH conspiracies!
@Kat
I will respond to you later today.
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If we do discover someone behaving in this manner, we will ask that they refrain; if they persist, we have no qualms in permanently banning them from posting on this site.
Look, we’re freedom-loving Americans like yourself, and respect your right to free speech — we just ask that you express yourself in a manner that is respectful and courteous.
As such, you may have noticed I’ve deleted and edited a few of the nastier comments here. We don’t tolerate that sort of language and attacks here — so although you are certainly entitled to express your opinion, again, we expect that while you’re on THIS site, you do so respectfully. Or you will be banned.
Thank you to everyone for understanding.
Ray
Freedom of speech is one thing. False accusation and defamation of character are something completely different.
Erik Kubik may very well have video of Maine Ghost Hunters Members while we were in the Old Burying Point Cemetery this weekend in Salem Massachusetts. He may very well have video of us taking photographs in that cemetery. The claim of faking evidence is completely untrue, unfounded and simply an attempt at putting a scar on the reputation of Maine Ghost Hunters.
Facts:
1. Maine Ghost Hunters was in Old Burying Point Cemetery as stated.
2. Maine Ghost Hunters was taking a lot of photos while in Salem including while in the Old Burying Point Cemetery.
3. Maine Ghost Hunters was in the Old Burying Point Cemetery with close to an estimated 50 other people who were also taking photos for the same purpose as we were. To catalog our trip and take home some memories of our event. Based on the flawed logic presented by Erik Kubik these other folks must have been there faking ghost photos too?
4. It’s concerning to learn that Erik Kubik finds it acceptable to video record the activities of other people he does not know and then broadcast that video on the internet without their express permission. In addition expressing his unfounded “interpretation” (and I use that word loosely). What kind of creepy person does that?
Please feel free to visit our website and see the evidence we present and judge for yourself.
It’s really sad that people must stoop so low as to manufacture falsities in an attempt to garner the attention they desire so badly (which they can’t seem to earn on their own accord).
Sincerely,
Tony
Maine Ghost Hunters
@Tony
I think you are mistaken here.
1. I have not placed the video online.
2. I videotaped these individuals b/c of what they were doing. It involved the use of a cigarette.
3. The length of the clip is about 10 or 12 secs. I wasn’t following anyone around or creeping about. I was taking video of the cemetery and happen to see two men doing something strange.
Now I am willing to discuss this with you and Kat privately, show you the clip, and have you respond with your defense. If you dispute this evidence, then we can post the opposing sides here, if need be. I am not a person to hold grudges and am willing to admit mistakes when I make them. But your comments above presume I did this and that when you don’t know the circumstances of what I saw.
If more comments like you have posted above continue, then I find it difficult to even approach this subject with your organization. You can’t argue with a freight train.
@Erik
My problem is that a false public claim has been made against our organization by name “Maine Ghost Hunters” regarding faking of paranormal evidence. I hope that when this claim is proven to be false we can resolve that as publicly as the claim was made and move on. Please send a link to the video ASAP so we can do that. You can send email to maineghosthunters@maineghosthunters.org, katm@maineghosthunters.org or tonyl@maineghosthunters.org and you can even call our phone at 207.504.6224.
Tony
Maine Ghost Hunters
People, I think we should end our responses in here.
Although it’s a Google Friendly type of information.
We lost track of what’s important or not.
We should take it somewhere else and write about how well Ray Bendici is writing his articles
Don’t you think so?
I said I would refrain from making any comments to negative posts but I just can’t bite my tongue anymore. Please, if you are a skeptic or an antagonist there is no need to post here. I’m all about a GOOD debate but certain posters are going beyond a debate. But like Tony said, there is a difference between freedom of speech and false accusations/defamation of character. I support MGH 100% and for you non believers, us paranormal teams really stick together and will support/defend each other. No one on here is bashing or critizing your website or what you do Mr. Kubik. You may not understand or accept what we do but if you could please try to respect it that would be fantastic. To everyone else, thank you & happy hunting!!
With all due respect Tal, this accusation hasn’t been resolved and until that happens I would rather the thread remain open.
We are confident in 2 aspects of what has become this “situation”. (#1), the specific use of the phrase “Maine Ghost Hunters” was used in Mr. Kubik’s explanation of who he saw in Salem, and it was (#2) directly stated he saw 2 male members of that team purposely faking photographic evidence.
Since this posting is going to be on the internet for eternity I don’t feel it’s asking too much that Mr. Kubik provide the 10 to 12 seconds of video, and once we (Mr. Kubrik and Maine Ghost Hunters) are sure the accusations are not directed toward us – Maine Ghost Hunters – we would appreciate a formal public apology so anyone who reads this string in the future will be clear that Mr. Kubik was speaking of another team from Maine, and not ours.
I’m confident we can work together toward this end, and equally as confident that it’s necessary as a means to maintain our mutual public persona/image.
Thanks, and I’ll let you know when Mr. Kubik follows through with his offer to provide the video he took of the team members faking evidence.
Kat
Maine Ghost Hunters
Amanda,
Thank you so much for your words of support. They are greatly appreciated. It’s good to be in the presence of someone who understands our concerns.
Kat
Maine Ghost Hunters
@Amanda
“I support MGH 100% and for you non believers, us paranormal teams really stick together and will support/defend each other. No one on here is bashing or critizing your website or what you do Mr. Kubik. You may not understand or accept what we do but if you could please try to respect it that would be fantastic. ”
Amanda, honestly, it doesn’t seem you want to stand up to peer review. I agree with UE: if you don’t want to defend the integrity of your scientific investigation, then don’t stand in the public life. Everyday I am forced to defend my world, sometimes to a room of this country’s most prodigious physicists. I sincerely think a great many paranormal groups are afraid to face a truly dedicated scientific analysis of their evidence. Standing together, good works, all this means nothing. It comes down to your method, your results, and your error analysis.
@Kat
“Since this posting is going to be on the internet for eternity I don’t feel it’s asking too much that Mr. Kubik provide the 10 to 12 seconds of video, and once we (Mr. Kubrik and Maine Ghost Hunters) are sure the accusations are not directed toward us…..”
Just got home and ate dinner with my family. I will send out the clip once we can agree on the following: we can discuss the matter privately and come to a consensus before we post here again. I am not here for someone to grab my footage and present it out of context.
Just to put this issue to rest. I talked with Tony of Maine Ghost Hunters and forwarded him the footage of the individuals creating fake ghost images in Salem. Although not discernible from the footage, I described the shirt of one of the men in the video and this does not match the shirt worn by the group “Maine Ghost Hunters”. The shirt, in question, had a picture of a ghost, tombstone and the words “Maine Ghost Hunters/Investigators”, the last word I was not certain. After looking at the field team for Tony’s group, there was no individual who resembled the men in the video. The time the video was taken does not match Tony’s account of the time his team was in the cemetery.
This leads me to believe, and perhaps Tony too if he wants to speak for himself, that this is another ghost hunting team from Maine visiting Old Burying Point Cemetery on this day. The video clearly shows this team from Maine faking a smoking image of a ghost.
Tony was very pleasant as we discussed the video and he understands that I used the term Maine Ghost Hunters based on the teeshirt I witnessed and not based on knowledge of their group for which I had none.
So I hope this clears up this little row. We can now turn our attention back to the malarky going on at MTS.
—-Erik
@ MGH: I’m thrilled that Mr. Kubik’s wasn’t a video of your group!! I had been thinking about you all day and was hoping for a quick resolution!
To everyone else: I’ve been in contact with Ray from this site and we are working on a Q&A with him that will be featured on this thread. We will try to answers everyone’s questions and concerns about MTS and our investigation. If you have any specific questions you can email damnedct with them or myself directly at Amanda.proof@live.com
We will answer the questions and then stop posting on this thread. Thank you!
Hallelujah!
Thank you proof paranormal for your large donation to the Christmas in April foundation. Your largely populated events exceeded our expectations and we are very grateful for you and your extreme generosity. Great evidence btw. Love you guys. Looking forward to the MTS Q&A NICK.. CIA INC.
Sorry, but there are MANY FALSE STATEMENTS here…..My parents worked at the Mansfield Training School which was NOT A PLACE FOR THE INSANE! It was a facility where MENTALLY HANDICAPPED/i.e. RETARDED individuals received care, housing, and therapy! Our family lived very close to this house! There were never any murders there and the house in question was lived in by the Superintendent and his family for nearly 20 years, ending in the mid-80′s. The Superintendent’s son has even commented on the MTS facebook page and on the PROOF facebook page that he did not notice anything unusual in the house! We lived in the same neighborhood along with the families of doctors and other employees, it was a nice, happy and friendly environment. Many former employees greatly miss the place! IF there was actually a “skeleton” in the house, why isn’t anyone asking the superintendents’s family about it? THERE WAS NEVER AN “ASYLUM” THERE OR PATIENTS HOUSED IN THAT HOUSE! IT WAS A HOUSE USED FOR STAFF, namely the Superintendent and his family, to reside there. And, if the house somehow became “haunted” after the Superintendent moved out in the mid-80′s, they why is the women who bought it STILL LIVING THERE? COULD MONEY BE A MOTIVATING FACTOR? Surely someone is profiting off of this new found notoriety? And, there were NO TUNNELS! There were several other “training schools” for the retarded in CT and they were all shut down when the state decided to phase them out in favor of group homes. No mystery, no scandal.
Thank you, Tina. I have tried to get former employees to come here and talk about MTS, but, frankly, they couldn’t give a darn about some group’s ghost hunt. Clearly, money and notoriety are issues inside someone’s mind here. We are seeing evidence already of that. Tina, if you contact me at killingvector1@gmail.com, I would like to message you about something.
I will say this though. A number of ex-employees have admitted being in the tunnels. I have not so I cannot say for certain that they exist.
Also, one cannot forgive the DOJ investigation and class action lawsuit as factors in the decision to close MTS. They were, in fact, the motivation and provided the necessity to move the patients out of the facility and into group homes.
Hello everyone, my name is Joseph Gallant and I am the Founder and Operator of P.R.O.O.F or Paranormal Researchers OF Odd Findings. Unfortunately, during the airing of Paranormal Witness and the start of this thread I was out of town and unable to comment on anything in the above mentioned format. Although I appreciate everyone’s opinion and comments regarding MTS and our investigation of the Moore family haunting, I refuse to battle between whats real and what some consider to be fabricated. @Tina, you are absolutely correct in your statement ” it was not an asylum for the insane, it was a facility for the mentally retarded”. The Mansfield Training School and hospital was a secure residential institution for individuals with dual diagnoses “Mental Retardation and developmental disabilities. The grounds were comprised of several different buildings or units that were “guided” in providing a stable environment with cognitive behavioral treatment for both children and adults of all ages. In a provisions report provided by the state of CT and the Department of Mental Retardation (DMR) the facility was under constant investigation for the excessive use and misuse of physical and chemical restraint and seclusion. This report also included provisions behind the hundreds of abuse and neglect allegations made against current facility staff. You have stated that your “Parents” had worked for MTS and question the truth behind abuse allegations, including the existence of tunnels running the campuses property. I work for the state of CT, for the Department of Mental Health and Addiction Services (DMHAS). 78% of the clients I work with, were at one time in their lives a patient at MTS and unfortunately, I have heard my fair share of horror stories. Out of that 78% 32% of these previous MTS patients are diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder or (PTSD). This diagnosis being the ending result of their undignified treatment received at MTS. FYI: There are tunnels that are lined throughout the entire property, this to include the maintenance buildings. For verification of the tunnels existence, I will post a link or provide photos of the original layout of the facility, thus including the tunnels.
FYI, NO ONE has or will receive any monetary compensation for their involvement with the haunting of Mansfield mansion. The Moore family simply wanted their story told, they wanted someone out their to have had the same experiences so that in the end they wouldn’t feel so alone. In fact the Moore family has agreed to allow one party per month consisting of five individuals the opportunity to conduct their own paranormal investigation at the residence and guess what? That’s right for FREE. Now, if it were, we were trying to make an easy paycheck, why wouldn’t we charge for these visits, say like the Lizzy Borden home or the PA state penitentiary? We don’t want money or even recognition, we want people just like us to experience the pleasure of the unexplained, that’s it. If anyone has any additional questions please contact DamnedCt.com with your inquires and they will be answered with P.R.O.O.F soon to be Q&A format. Goodnight everyone!
Fair analysis, Joseph. I did not appreciate the allegations of murder at MTS made by SyFy. Also, the program alleged that murder had occurred and was covered up by the superintendent of MTS. Without real evidence, and not fabricated news clippings, SyFy does not escape without a severe rebuke for alleging such unproven allegations.
So, I guess this website is owned by the “PROOF” group and is not an unbiased site? And, that “PROOF” is apparently run by a (disgruntled?) State of CT Mental Health Worker? That in itself seems quite telling….
As far as “Tunnels”, the PROOF investigator said there were tunnels to this house, that is an incorrect statement, there are no tunnels leading to this house. As to an abuse report against “current employees”, there are no current employees as MTS has been closed since the 1980′s……And, considering it is public record as a state document, can you post that report as well as documentation to substantiate your claims as to your “current patients” and “78%” of them being from MTS, although it has been closed since the 80′s, and “32%” of those suffering from PTSD?
As far as PROOF not profiting, can you post the contract you had with RAW TV which will confirm you were not being in any way compensated?
Lastly, if crimes such as those you allege were committed in that house, and the remains of a body found there, and the current residents claim no involvement in such crimes, then shouldn’t the former residents, that being the Superintendent and/or his family be questioned by the police? The superintendent’s son, Brett McNamera, is active online on FB and other communities, he even runs a page for former MTS employees, surely the police could locate him and open a criminal investigation if your statements are true?
@Erik, to be honest with you Erik, I couldn’t agree with you more on this matter. The Mansfield Training School does indeed have a laundry list of resident complaints concerning abuse and neglect. Nevertheless, no where in these complaints, is there an indication or evidence thereof, a murder/coverup at MTS or the previous superintendents residence. The fact that the Syfy network was aware of there being no murder/coverup but yet still moving forward and airing such information with fabricated materials is beyond reasonable comprehension. I have been in contact with the Moore family and they aswell are disgusted with the outcome of the episode and its falsifications. I have been in contact with the MTS representative and property manager and we are working together to resolve some of the controversy behind the facilities rumors. The only thing that I can tell you right now is, NO there was no murder at MTS or at the previous Superintendents residence. Additionally, the materiel that was discovered in a slap in the Moore family home did in fact resemble human remains but has NOT been presumed such at this time. The syfy network made viewers believe that what was found was “in fact” a human skeleton which couldn’t be any more dramatic or farther from the truth. I do have a copy of the initial report made to Mansfield state troopers and will post that later today or tomorrow. Unfortunately, I can not comment on the states investigation at this time, however, if what was reported as “human-like remains” was in fact found to be “human” than I would think that I would have already been informed of its validity. I will keep you updated. Any additional questions you may have concerning MTS and the superintendents home, please forward to Ray the Administrator for Damnedct.com Thanks again for listening.
@Tina, Thank you so much for your comment! Question for you Tina; have you been inside of the MTS or been through the previous superintendents home? If you haven’t I would be more than obliged to give you a tour! You and I can sit behind our screens and type away all day in a heated debate about the facts concerning what took place at MTS. FYI: the state of CT officially shut the MTS down in 1993, not mid 80′s.Get your facts straight. As for allegations in the superintendents previous residence, I do not as mentioned in the above have any reports or evidence thereof, to say that any crime, thus including murder was committed or covered up. You can say whatever it is about me or P.R.O.O.F that you feel justifies your concern or makes you feel in authority. Nevertheless, I will defend the rights of the Moore family and the Facts surrounding MTS and its history. I will discontinue my commenting on this site and will provide answers to per-prepared questions provided by Damnedct.com. Format coming soon.
Joseph, if you would be so obliged, I would like to take you up on your offer to tour MTS. I’ve been there before, toured extensively, but there are elements of the property that I have questions about.
@Erik, Please email me personally at gallant.proof@live.com and you and I will discuss further a guided tour of MTS and the Previous superintendents residence. Thanks Much!
YES, I HAVE been there and inside several buildings. As to your offer of a “tour”, I no longer live in CT. Show me proof that “underground tunnels” exist leading to/from the superintendents residence , such as the photos you previously indicated you would post. And, please back up your other claims such as the statistics and reports you referenced as well as your claim that your PROOF group did not have a deal to be compensated by RAW TV, how about posting the contract? And, get YOUR facts straight, they began closing buildings and moving out most residents in the mid to late 1980′s….The prison which sits on a large area of the “campus”, and which took over several of the buildings, was also opened in the 1980′s. And, you clearly seem to be changing some of your group’s prior statements as to finding human remains etc., perhaps realizing it is becoming obvious that they are false and possibly libelous claims.
why are there no photos of the house that is Amy Moores Mansfield Conneticut Training school house? I would like to see photos of it as it is today.
Joseph, you are very well spoken. You have handled the negative comments very professionally. I am impressed. Like I said in previous statements T.V. tends to “Hollywood” it up a bit for entertainment purposes. People just need to keep that in mind while watching shows such as PW. Keep an open mind. Regardless if there are or aren’t tunnels or if there was or was not a murder. The house and the surrounding grounds are very interesting. I don’t know how someone can say that there was ZERO abuse or mistreatment, as a person who has worked in the medical field I have witnessed abuse and mistreatment in every facility I have been in, so I have a hard time believing there was NO mistreatment of the patients. I will say this though, on the show Amy Moore herself claimed that she had found old newspaper clippings about a murder so why she would be upset about how SYFY aired it confuses me.
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1308-Stafford-Rd-Storrs-Mansfield-CT-06268/62553965_zpid/#{scid=hdp-site-map-bubble-address}
Maggie,
Just go a real estate site like zillow (address shown above), enter the address and learn all you’d ever want to know about the current state of the estate.
Joseph – Thank you so much for your comments regarding the murder. I’m curious about laying it all on SyFy, though. In comment 24, Amanda, the Executive Director of PROOF, states that the allegation of murder is “100% accurate and true. From our evidence, we believe the little girls name is ‘Jessica’. We have an EVP in which she tells us her name.” How does her claim that the murder is 100% true, even supplying us with the victim’s name, square with your claim that “the Syfy network was aware of there being no murder”?
Also in comment 69, Amanda says that “we believe” what was found in the basement was “cremated remains.” But you say “The syfy network made viewers believe that what was found was “in fact” a human skeleton which couldn’t be any more dramatic or farther from the truth.” So does PROOF believe there’s a murder and human remains like Amanda says, or that there wasn’t, like you said? And if one of your organization’s own representatives is claiming there was a murder and a body, why are you pinning this entirely on SyFy? I am actually asking – I may be misunderstanding where Amanda is from, for example – but I would like to get your take on these contradictions.
@Squidge, Good point. Amanda works for PROOF, as she states. It appears one member of PROOF is stating one thing and another something entirely different, then they attack those who point out their inconsistencies and inaccuracies. On another page, Amanda says they will be posting a police report to verify remains were found while Joseph, the founder of PROOF, says that no remains were found. If remains were found, open a criminal investigation and question the last known residents. And Brandy, there are allegations of mistreatment of one kind or another at nearly every hospital and every facility of this kind in the nation, today and back when MTS was open. Within the time span of more than 100 years, and thousands of staff and patients/residents, there may very well have been some cases of mistreatment but abuse allegations do not substantiate murder or a haunted residence. Post the newspaper clippings referenced about the “murder”. And claiming that PROOF did not have any financial incentive regarding this investigation or any arrangement to be compensated by RAW TV is not helping PROOF’s case as those are not true statements.
@Tina – I guess I can stretch credulity enough to believe that Joseph just doesn’t know what Amanda is telling people, if I must, but to blame it all on SyFy when we got half of this info from his own group’s executive director on this very page (and not the show) is making this shadier and shadier. I don’t think the show even mentioned the name “Jessica.” And the fact that she says PROOF’s investigation uncovered the murder via EVP… At the very least, I hope he talks to her about claiming the group has proof they apparently don’t, and spreading rumors about murders that never happened.
I have to admit, I’m not too keen on Joseph’s plan of only responding to questions this website prepares in advance. I have a feeling questions like ours just won’t make it through the screening process, but hopefully I’m wrong.
Regardless of fact, fiction or whatever we all got here to this thread by either watching SyFy or by investigating the house/mansion/facility. I personally watched the SyFy show “Paranormal Witness”. Me, personally, I believe in the paranormal and would love to experience it first hand. I watch the shows out of pure interest and because honestly I like getting scared. I am kind of an adrenaline junky of varying magnitudes. Plus I like the whole research behind the “story”.”Story” is in quotations because amongst truth there are lies and amongst lies there is truth, especially when it comes down to a hundred year old “questionable/primative science studies” facility with documented and “word of mouth” incidents. Skeptics are going to do what they do, criticize and demand solid proof. Paranormal investigators are going to pursue that constant demand by skeptics for solid truth. I am just unsure as to what is solid truth in a field that has just recently seen a boom of interest and growth within the last decade or so. It is almost along the lines of NASA’s claim of another inhabitable planet in another galaxy. Honestly how the hell would they know? Seriously think about it, how the hell can scientists see a planet and its atmospheric make up that far away and determine it “livable”. But we all put faith in their PHD and years of college crunching and studies. They say it, we beleive it. It is human nature to question and rationalize what we fear which is what I believe has been happening on this thread.
In my honest opinion things can still happen even if they are not documented. The particular incident I am referring to is the said “murder” of the little girl “Jessica”. If you open your mind and think about what is being said by Joseph and his colleague Amanda, both of P.R.O.O.F., there MAY be a “read between the lines” type of deal here. Joseph said there is no evidence to support this accusation, i.e. reports, newspaper articles or any other sort of documentation. From a professional perspective that is most likely correct and the right thing to say. My theory is the P.R.O.O.F. organization may have “made contact” with an unfortunately murdered child whose sad and horrible death may have been covered up. Just because there are no documents does not mean it did not happen. From my understanding with my limited knowledge of these types of “facilities for feeble minded/retarded/mentally and sociably challenged” many things were covered up and kept secret (and that is documented in many ways). These institutes used very inhumane and controversial techniques to “cure” the uncurable. Many people fell victim to these “studies of science” just because of the lack of understanding and primative knowledge of humanity, period. Regardless, an undocumented and covered up murder could be the reason why these “human like” bones were discovered within the homes basement and turned over to the state anthropoligist or whatever. It very well could be and is most likely a case to some degree if found to be human bones in the manor they were. Whether it be an open, active case or an unsolved case. That could explain why P.R.O.O.F. has received no further enlightenment of the matter because they are not directly or intimately linked to the bones in any manor. At this current date paranormal investigations with incriminating findings cannot be exhibited as proof. Just the same as Mediums and Psychics. What paranormal investigators, mediums and psychics do is not an exact science and there is not enough credibility to support it. Same as a lie detector and a roadside PBT (prelimanary breath test – handheld used by law enforcement to get a rough idea of blood alcohol content). There is just too many unknown variables.
In the end if your a critic good for you and keep up the good work. Critics are what pushes professionals of every field to better themselves and to keep pushing for their field to broaden. Without the critics out there the paranormal field would be a series of goosbumps and noises as proof. P.R.O.O.F. and the other ghost hunters and paranormal investigators are what they are and they do what they love and feel compassionate about. As a critic just because you are skeptical or scared of the truth get over it and understand to not understand. Do not sit there and tear someone or something apart that you yourself know nothing about. As I pointed out earlier, we don’t argue with atronomers or astrologers (whatever the exact title is) that there is inhabitable planet somewhere out there. Why argue with the paranormal pros?
CB – Joseph didn’t merely say there’s no evidence of a murder, he said there was “no murder.” In fact, he says that SyFy’s claim that there was a murder “is beyond reasonable comprehension.” That leaves zero wiggle room for a murder.
I do believe in the supernatural. I don’t argue with all paranormal investigators. But that doesn’t mean I have to believe all of them.
I worked at Mansfield Training School for 14 yrs and never saw or felt anything strange or otherwordly, and I have never been to the Moore House, though I know where it is. I can tell you that there were tunnels all throughout Mansfield Training School, though I personally was never in them. I think the purpose of them was to travel in bad weather from building to building and maybe to transport those who lived there. The years I worked there the School was home to “retarded” individuals.
@Deb, same here. My Dad was on the medical staff, and my Mom did some P/T volunteer work when she was not too busy being a F/T Mom. We lived at Deardon House which was sort of an apt building at the time, along with the families of many other staff members. If there were tunnels, I would think your explanation is correct, and would not think the existence of some tunnels would have any bearing on some of the claims being made as to hauntings, “murders”, etc. I have been in the former super’s house and do not believe there were any tunnels which ran there. As a child growing up, I never felt anything odd or heard of anything otherworldly either. Granted, any group of old abandoned buildings is likely to be creepy but that is much different than some of the claims being made here.
Squidge- Like many have said it is all a matter of opinion. Regardless they do their thing that they are professionals at. It is what it is and that is all we can believe it to be. I understand and am all for debate. The debate over situations to me makes thing that much more interesting. Regardless of what we think, we have to at least give them, P.R.O.O.F. some type of respect in understanding how there may just in fact be “red tape” over certain things considering the investigation of the Moore house was done before SyFy had involvement. SyFy is a major television network and who ever manages the network I am sure has a legal team that is well in place for the fact of arguments like this that attack the “credibility” of the factual and fictional story for the “Hollywoodifying”. I just feel some people on here attacked and criticized the whole story/situation rather rudely. As humans we have free will and free thought (I am not going Bible thumping here at all, just realistic). I just think people want to believe and they want that “smoking gun”. Honestly though, what would be the “smoking gun”? It is not like we are going to the dentist and looking at models of something known for thousands of years by extensive research. The paranormal science is young and a new and radical thought to many. Regardless I am a believer but I also understand to not understand. I am not a paranormal investigator and would not even know the first thing other than what I see on TV and a few “questionable” experiences heard and experienced. In the end I just love the paranormal and the whole process that goes into research from documents and interviews and the representation. People just need to understand that criticizing is just that. I just think it is foul for people to crucify someone because they believe in or are contrary to their own thoughts.
“The paranormal science is young and a new and radical thought to many. ”
The study of the paranormal is not considered to be a science by any physics, chemistry, biology, or professional engineering department of any University in the country, perhaps the world. In fact, paranormal research has been labeled by many to be a pseudoscience and by others as a search for anomalies. Those are all facts. I understand belief tends to trump the expert opinions of the scientific community. I personally respect others for their beliefs, but if they go public with their results, I then challenge on the basis of their purported physical evidence.
Paranormal research is also not a young science. The study of ghostly phenomenon has been going on for hundreds of years. Indeed some of the same instruments, though now more sensitive, have been in use over that time period.
“I am sure has a legal team that is well in place for the fact of arguments like this that attack the “credibility” of the factual and fictional story for the “Hollywoodifying”.”
I understand your thought here, but P.R.O.O.F itself has admitted that the material collected was not human remains. Therefore, SyFy made two egregious mistakes in their presentation: first, they erroneously accused MTS of murder and a conspiracy to cover up the murder and, second, that the remains contained a human skeleton.
If the legal team were in fact working as closely with production as you suggest, then they not only dropped the ball but allowed the network to be vulnerable to civil action.
Erik- When I say young I am referring to the methods and “tools” used. It is kind of far fetched to say that ghosts just started appearing within the last three hundred years or even one thousand years. Now I understand the meaning of pseudoscience – basically meaning “false knowledge”. Consider this alchemy was once thought to be a pseudoscience. Another obvious example of pseudoscience was that the world was once thought flat and those who thought it to be round were ridiculed (more of a pseudo-thought than pseudoscience however Pythagoras hypothesized this around 570BC and Erathostenes theorized the Earth was round around 240BC but was not proven until Magellan was the first person documented to sail around the world 1519-22 “Magellan was killed in 1521 but his crew continued and finished the journey” ). Hypnotism, neuroplasticity the belief the brain can adapt , plate tectonics, the germ theory by Pasteur, faculty psychology (the assignment of different sections of the brain are used for different functions), Democritus thought of atomism, then there was the thought that the Earth was the center of the universe and that the sun revolved around the planets known as helicenticism (philisophisized by Copernicus and not proven by him only because he could not give “visual proof” to skeptics), endosymbiosis was highly criticized (the belief of mitochondria (in human cells) and chloroplasts (in plant cells) derived from prokaryotic organisms, as well as some consider the “string theory” not a part of science. If you think of it Psychology in a whole was once considered a “pseudoscience”. Some of these listed are indeed thoughts and theories but most of them were once considered ridiculous and as time went on and the ability to research these “pseudosciences” they were proven and are now considered within the astronomical, mathmatical, medical, biological and geographical sciences. All science was once considered “pseudoscience” at one point in time until the subject matter was researched with evolved technology and extensive studies. Would you go as far as saying Darwins theory of evolution is a psedoscience or is theology a pseudoscience? Which side of the fence are you on in that topic? I feel the term “pseudoscience” should be replaced with the term “controversial science” for the fact that many theories of “false knowledge” have been proven to be in fact, correct. Pseudoscience is another way to term an unproven hypothesis. People who are gods in the science world such as Einstein, Newton and Freud were once laughed at and ridiculed. Would you say they are wrong with their theories and hypothesises today, or do you believe them because the books you read in college or any other year of your education told you they were right? I can list more and more things that were once considered “false knowledge” the literal latin meaning of “pseudoscience”, as well as misleading. I stumbled across this quote stated by Donald Rumsfield:
As we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know.
We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know.
But there are also unknown unknowns — the ones we don’t know we don’t know.”
- Donald Rumsfeld
Kind of sums everything up…. understand to not understand.
Erik- As far as P.R.O.O.F. saying this or saying that, I kind of feel that it is one person being legally and professionally correct considering their situation with RAW TV or SyFy or whoever, and the other stating what they think they know from their studies/investiagtion. They kind of need to get on the same page for multiple reasons. I can not remember if any of the P.R.O.O.F. members or Ms. Moore stated whether they were anatomy experts or what not. As far as I know P.R.O.O.F. was not there during the removal of the “bones” human or animal. This statement should not have been made, it is a statement made on an assumption… that I agree with Erik. But like I said if the Connecticut State Anthropologist examined the bones and nothing was released it may in fact be human bones and it may in fact be an open case it the bones were in deed human. I do not care who you are, unless you have some law enforcement weight or connection, to find out if it is an active or cold case. You have to think of the negligence and inability to keep accurate records of the time era. If they are indeed human bones and they were hidden and “unclaimed” then you have to have the reasonable suspicion to consider that there is a possibility of a covered up murder. Key words: consider and possibility if proven to be human bones.
If indeed it is a covered up murded from 100 years ago I cannot imagine the case being solved, but like I said this institute/facility was criticized and eventually closed with a big reason being the lawsuits, actions or whatever were against the state. It is and will remain a kick to the groin and a sore spot to the state of Connecticut. I would expect to never receive a statement of the findings for that reason. This helps and hurts P.R.O.O.F. with being able to show a valid point and truth to their “evidence” or findings.
Hi all, I enjoyed watching the show re-run last night. I grew up 5 miles from the Mansfield Training School, so this has always been an interesting topic for me.
I think people are confused about the location of Amy Moore’s house….it is not on the grounds of the actual facility, it’s a few miles away. It is an absolutely gorgeous house, which she has done a fantastic job renovating, especially in the recent years.
I would be really surprised to know that there are tunnels under the house that connect to the hosptial site – they would literally be miles long. I just don’t see how this is possible.
The story about the hauntings are very believable to me, especially with the controversy that surrounds the MTS.
When I was in high school (1995-1999) my friends and I frequently visited the hospital grounds to walk through and explore. It has an ‘electric’, strange feeling, unline anything I’ve ever felt before. Everything was exactly the way it was left on the day it closed….patient’s files still in cabinets, exam rooms with chairs, straps, pharmarceuticals, instruments…over the years, people have vanadlized the place and security is very tight there now.
I’m not sure what I believe about ghosts and haunted places, but I do know that the Mansfield Training School was filled with an energy I’ve never felt, and it wasn’t a nice feeling.
This whole thread is riddled with conflicting statements and knowledge. You have people that were raised in the area that believe or noticed certain aspects of the paranormal. Some of those raised and grew up in the area say nothing crazy ever happened at MTS while some feel that MTS has a tainted history. It is what it is, believe what you want or dont want to.
@CB
I have indeed believed what I know to have experienced being from the area. I also know that I do not believe completely the alleged presented evidence from Proof. I call these things to question with them because they lack the scientific method that even a “pseudoscience” should aspire to. Much of the riddling that you speak of comes from Proof.. So, given the empirical evidence I have, I choose not to believe their statement of “fact” that the house is haunted.
Until such time as I experience these things myself, this is the state of belief I shall continue to hold true.
U.E.
U.E.- I understand and agree with you completely. I just do not know enough about the “science” of it so I will not criticize or condemn anyone for what they have to offer. Do not think that I am for or against P.R.O.O.F. I am a believer and therefore I am “for” the growth of the field and I respect the numerous types and different paranormal investigators.
But one last note…. I believe that critics will forever push these investigators and researchers to excellerate their chosen field of expertise, in this case the paranormal. I just feel there is a proper and more effective way to criticize rather than attack, which I feel some people have approached a spirited discussion with the willing with a fierce and accusative manor.
CB – I think I see what you’re getting at, but … this is not a matter of opinion. “A murder happened” is not opinion. That is claiming a fact. So I’m not sure why PROOF gets to come on here claiming facts, but if we question their alleged facts we’re told it’s all just opinion. It’s not. They’re stating that a factual event happened or did not happen.
“Regardless of what we think, we have to at least give them, P.R.O.O.F. some type of respect in understanding how there may just in fact be ‘red tape’ over certain things considering the investigation of the Moore house was done before SyFy had involvement.”
All I’ve asked for is the article about the murder, which is public record. There is no possible way a publicly accessible newspaper article can be caught up in red tape.
@CB
“When I say young I am referring to the methods and “tools” used. It is kind of far fetched to say that ghosts just started appearing within the last three hundred years or even one thousand years.”
In regards to the pseudoscience debate, I have to respond though I appreciate your comments on this case b/c I believe the allegations of the SyFy channel need to be taken separately from what PROOF has presented.
When Einstein unveiled his Special Theory of Relativity in 1905, he offered an explanation of the famous Michelson-Morley experiment by introducing a revolutionary assumption: the speed of light was constant irregardless of the motion of the observer or source. This assumption predicted a number of different phenomenon such as time dilation and the increase in the masses of fast moving objects. Subsequent experiments proved definitely that Einstein’s underlying assumption was correct. Any experiments to measure the time dilation effects of particles emitted from a supernova, for example, would not be considered pseudo science because the underlying theory of the research has been shown to be repeatable and predictive.
Similarly, if one were to study the evolution of grey seals in North America using the theory of natural selection and evolution, then such research would also not be considered pseudo scientific b/c it is based upon a foundation of a theory which is both repeatable experimentally and predictive.
The study of ghostly phenomenon, however, fails this test because it is based upon a ‘false knowledge’, namely that the animals, humans or otherwise, can communicate with the living, physical world after death. Ghost research involves the investigation of houses, buildings, areas of historical interest….ect, in which the investigators use scientific methods (not always) to detect the presence of ghostly spirits. This research is pseudoscientific b/c it is based on a false assumption that such phenomenon exists. There is no biological experiment which has found evidence of communication in our world from the dead which is both repeatable and predictive. Thus, if one engages in research based on an unproven assumption, that area of research is deemed pseudo science.
Now I am not dismissing the existence of ghosts, spirits, or an afterlife. Many people have had their own experiences and I respect that. However, as a scientist, I know that such experiences cannot be turned into repeatable scientific experiments and also cannot rule out alternate explanations. If one wants to engage in scientific research of ghosts, then one must directly attempt to prove that deceased animals can communicate with our world under control conditions and be able to repeat that experiment. However, as I have said, any research which branches off from the existance of ghosts assumption has ventured into the realm of pseudoscience.
Squidge- How many murders have happened that no one knows about? Just because there is no article does not mean it did not happen. It is fact knowing that at the turn of the 20th century records were not kept like they are today, obviously. People were admitted to institutions for multiple bull crap reasons. Some people were “socially inept” some were considered to have something wrong with them if they were having children while unwed. Some families just made reasons to get rid of children or other relatives out of hate or anger. Remember this could have happened (the murder) in the early 1900′s. P.R.O.O.F. I admit has made some conflicting arguments that there was a murder and that there was nothing to support that a murder happened there. Look you want an article, ok fine, I understand. I worked in the law enforcement field and grew up in a terrible city. Everytime there is a murder there is not an article written especially if no one knows there was a murder. Does someone sit at a desk and get this mental wave of energy and then they start penning in an article simply because a murder happened. For there to be absolute proof that a murder happened and who did it you need 1) a body 2) a motive and 3) a weapon. If you live your life depending on knowing that only facts are stated by newspapers or the local news station then I am sorry you live a sheltered and malinformed life. Who is to say that this little girl was not an orphan from another state that was dropped at the institutes door step and 1,2,5,6,7 hell 10 years later while being a ward of the state she was slapt upside the head and she died as result of neck break or trauma due to hitting her head off a porcelin tub or whatever. Records were not kept like they are today, there is no hard drive there is nothing like today. All i am saying is it is definately possible that the little girl may have been murdered and it may have been covered up. I am not saying I believe what P.R.O.O.F. has said. I will say that it could have happened. It is just ignorant to believe that somone would not have destroyed records to cover there butts because it was a “state facility”. Do you think that there would be reports of of an AMBER ALERT or something? No, because the world was nothing like it is today were everything you do is documented. But there are crimes commited everyday from speeding, dui and even murders that no one knows about. When you see a missing poster do you think all those people are missing and not one of them was murdered? Come on be realistic. Just because you want an article for your doubts to be put to rest does not mean that the article exists, and just because of an article not existing does not mean it did not happen. For example refer to the show on Travel Channel called THE DEAD FILES. Granted one investigator is a medium and the other is a retired police detective, but they do not speak about the investigation until they reveal to eachother their findings with the owner or victim. Also granted there is documentation to back it up and confirm what eachother finds. My point is, the medium,through her own method of paranormal research found things out without the aid of the detective and his research. Have you ever heard an EVP in person from you asking questions? Who is to say (unless you are a non beliver or skeptic) that you cannot learn from the dead? Like I said if you do not believe nothing I say will make sense to you and you will not even try to understand.
CB – I agree. No article does not mean there as no murder, and I’m not being “ignorant.” I never said anything like that. The only reason I’m asking about the article was because in the Paranormal Witness episode, Amy Moore said it existed. Since Moore is in contact with PROOF, I asked PROOF if they had the article. If they don’t, that’s fine. I just figured I’d ask. In fact, I asked as an attempt to defend PROOF. People were questioning if the murder existed, so I thought if they could show us the article, it would prove they were right. I was initially on their side.
Actually, can I ask you a favor? Your last post to me was getting a little insulting. Would you please pull back a little? You may not have intended it, but things like “Did you think there would be an AMBER alert,” contemplating my “sheltered and malinformed life,” and misunderstanding my position and then calling it “ignorant” is pretty bad. No, I’m not stupid. No, I don’t think all murders are reported. No, I don’t think reporters “get this mental wave of energy and then they start penning in an article simply because a murder happened” and it is ridiculous to suggest that I think that. I have stated my position plainly – there is a claim made by the owner of the house in question that she read an article about the murder. I would like to see that article. That is not unreasonable, and it’s not me being so idiotic that I can’t comprehend the idea of a cover-up. The Owner. Of the house. Says she read the article. Plain and simple.
“Like I said if you do not believe nothing I say will make sense to you and you will not even try to understand.”
Seriously. Stop this. Stop saying people can only question PROOF if they aren’t true believers or are close-minded.
Erik- If you are a scientist you will respect the fact that all sciences start with a hypothesis or theory. I am glad you can copy and paste about einsteins theory of relativity and also the process of natural selection amongst grey seals. Is the earth round or flat? Was it not a theory for hundreds of years until proven only 500 years ago by magellan? the theory of the sun revolving around the plans was a theory for over 2000 years. Faculty psychology was a theory until the last couple of decades, with evolved technology showed that different sections of the brain are pesponsible for different functions. By definition hypothesis is by dictionary.com is –
” hy·poth·e·sis /haɪˈpɒθəsɪs, hɪ-/ Show Spelled[hahy-poth-uh-sis, hi-] Show IPA
noun, plural -ses /-ˌsiz/ Show Spelled[-seez] Show IPA.
1. a proposition, or set of propositions, set forth as an explanation for the occurrence of some specified group of phenomena, either asserted merely as a provisional conjecture to guide investigation (working hypothesis) or accepted as highly probable in the light of established facts.
2. a proposition assumed as a premise in an argument.
3. the antecedent of a conditional proposition.
4. a mere assumption or guess.”
In laymans terms it is an assumption of results in which you attempt to prove/disprove.
You mention you are a scientist. What type of scientist? Because I would love to know what theories or hypothesis you have come up with on your own. All these major things I listed in the forementioned post where all assumptions, guesses, theories and hypothesis at one time. They have just been proven to be correct. I do not believe you, being a scientist, has no understanding of “pseudoscience” other than throwing out the definition and taking it literal. You by nature should be quizical and skeptical. Your thinking should be out of the box not confined to wikipedia and websters dictionary. Unless you are a lab rat that puts together samples and does test for the scientist with the scientists guidance and direction.
Regardless people come up with a new theory and are mocked until proven right. I understand your skepticism because of comments made by P.R.O.O.F. memebers but when tey attempted to make an argument you were to ignorant to look at the bigger picture. You mocked their education and training because of “pseudoscience”. I provided proof of this happening and in the end because of those once “pseudosciences” which are now considered basic science in many levels of education. I do not get you. You deliberately tried to shoot down the credibility of those that were debating and trying to provide their own defense (admitably poorly and questionable). As a scientist you should know of all these things that have happened over the last 2500 years amongst highly influential people that were considered radical and mocked by many until time told the truth of their theories. You should at least be able to look at this situation and say “It is a possibility”. However I feel your ego and mouth may have gotten a head of you and you unfortunately seem to be one of those people that made a statement and will never be open to others.
Squidge- I apologize if you felt insulted. I just feel that people do not look at the whole picture and only believe one thing as opposed to many. Everyone has their opinion. I have commented on the “hollywoodifying” by SYFY. I have commented on the conflicting statements by both PROOF members. I just feel everyone is sitting there saying that it is not possible, when it is very possible. Again I apologize for the misleading attack on you, it was not meant that way. If I used you it was meant as an in general not you specifically. I also believe you misunderstand where I was going with that. If you or anyone else out in the world does not believe then so be it. I do not judge. The closeminded comment was aimed at saying that the proof only lies in documents. Crap happens everyday that is no documented. We live it, that is where the open your mind is. Again the your is directed in general. In fact many times I said critics and skeptics are a necesary evil.
Thank you sincerely for the apology. For the record, even if it turns out the murder is fake, like Joseph says, I still think it’s possible there’s a haunting. The PROOF page says there were EVPs from men as well, so clearly not everything they found is related to the murder of the little girl. I’m just finding the little girl story specifically to be increasingly sketchy and I am startled at the blatant contradictions surrounding it. I’ll admit it’s pinging my skepticism, but when I asked for Joseph’s take on the contradictions I was sincerely asking. It really may just be miscommunication from team members, but I would like to hear it from PROOF, you know?
Squidge- I am truly sorry for offending you. I can not emphasize enough. I misunderstood what direction you were going and I made an assumption. I will admit I was wrong.
Erik – I will not apologize to you for the fact that you are so rude and critical. I understand your stand on the PROOF conflicting comments and with SyFy interpretation and representation. I can say with the research I have done on PROOF they seem to be a legit and honest group that helps communities and many other causes and I tend to lean towards giving them the benefit of the doubt for that reason of their track record. I cannot understand how you attacked them without giving them the thought of saying “there could be a possibility”.
Squidge- It can also be a misunderstanding of the two members on a legal aspect. PROOF obviously had contact with SyFy before the PARANORMAL WITNESS show. We have no idea what could have been agreed or contractually written on PROOFs limitations on what they can and cannot be able to talk about due to the fact that it is a show on a mainstream channel. I do not question their ability as paranormal investigators but unfortunately they may in fact be telling the truth of their “evidence and findings”, but because the show was depicted differently and we all sat and watched the show, we tend to lean towards what the show represented and not PROOF. I am more concerned about them painting themselves into a corner because of legalities which is causing people to criticize their “proof” and integrity so to say.
CB – Thank you again. And I will admit that I got a little snippy regarding Joseph, and I can see taking exception to that. I just found it to be in poor taste to say that he was “disgusted” that SyFy claimed there was a murder when his own employee also said there was a murder. It’s like, why be mad at SyFy but not Amanda? It struck me as unfairly harsh to SyFy. But I agree with you that there could be behind-the-scenes stuff we don’t know about that affects what they can talk about. Especially since I believe they have a book coming out that discusses the Mansfield Training School case. Their book deal could also prevent them from giving away too much information for free.
I hope Joseph posts the FAQ soon, and I do hope he discusses the “Jessica” murder story because I am very interested in PROOF’s side and how this happened. I don’t know enough about the team to question them in general, so I don’t want to come across like I’m slamming all their work. The “Jessica” thing is just something of a mess and I’m curious about how it’ll shake out.
I am kind of feeling that PROOF has pulled away from this thread for the fact of there being so many conflictions. I am sure with the book and the release of the show kinda conflicted with what they have found. I admit it does raise questions but I will read the book and see what it has to say. I was unaware that they were writing a book on MTS. I am also toying with the idea of booking a weekend experience myself, if that is actually in the works to happen. Regardless of anything it will still be fun to experience.
From what I have read on their site, the book appears to be acompilation of their investigations. They discuss getting permission to use the Hooker Hotel in their book. I don’t know the details but it sounds like one of these Haunted in CT/New England type of projects.
Book? PROOF said they were not going to attempt to profit in any way from their involvement in this situation……
Also, on another page, they say there are police reports and claim they will be posting them….
PS- CB, it seems to be you who attacks others when they voice an opinion which differs from yours…..And you have gone way off topic in some of your “rambling” posts….
Tina- I made an attempt to make a point to someone that was very critical and rude on a page of debate. I was merely trying to get across the point that through the years of the worlds growth there have been many sciences considered ridiculous or defined as pseudoscience, that have become main staples in our scientific beliefs and studies. I provided examples. I have no sympathy for those who look for a debate but will not listen to examples, or proof (not referring to paranormal proof) by others. If one is so ignorant to be so prideful and egotistical to think everyone else is wrong, then damn right I will call them out on it. I have said numerous times I do not agree with PROOFs conflicting reports and I understand skepticism. If someone feels as strongly about their passion as the PROOF members, then that is their thing. I just do not appreciate how somone can literally attack them and criticize them for believeing in their “science”. Especially from a scientist.
If it offended you then realize it was not intended for you or anyone else other than Erik. Tina, if I were to sit here and say you do know what you were talking about when you accounted your time spent on MTS because others that are leaving comments contrary to your experience. I have been very flexible in understanding people will have different experiences or no experiences. In the end Erik was making comments and I stepped up to debate with him and if he or you do not like what I had to say, then oh well.
Erik – You’re correct. I didn’t mean to be misleading. The book is also about other cases, but it does include the Training School. At the end of the PROOF page describing the Training School Investigation it says “These contents were directly depicted by P.R.O.O.F’s soon to be published book “P.R.O.O.F ‘A door to the other-side.’” http://www.teamproof.com/paranormal-witness-the-haunting-of-mansfield-mansion-the-true-story/
@”CB”-There you go attacking me now because I pointed out what you were doing. And, no one else who actually lived on the premises or worked there is leaving accounts which differ from mine…..This discussion thread was meant to discuss MTS and the allegations presented in the recent show, not to debate whether this is “science”, or defend PROOF as “professionals”. And by the way, how did you make the determination that they are “professionals”? There is no certification or other criteria which makes that designation. Maybe you can start a new thread and ramble on and on (and on) as you seem to have a lot of free time on your hands and the desire to attack anyone who does not agree with you or who points out that often it is you who is doing the attacking.
@Erik, I looked at the info on the link you posted, those statements made by PROOF are false and can be easily proven as such. It states the Moore family read “article after article” about “abuse which took place on the premises and in their now home”, where are these articles? There was never any article about abuse in the superintendents home, and has abuse now replaced the term murder which was used previously as they previously claimed there was a newspaper article about a murder in the house? There were never any patients in the superintendents home, it states there were. It also, incorrectly describes MTS as being where “the feeble minded and insane were housed”, that is also incorrect as has repeatedly been stated and confirmed, it was a facility for the mentally retarded not the insane (there is a big difference between the two). I don’t have time to review the rest of it, and I imagine I will be hearing from “CB” soon, but this is obviously fiction and should be stated as such.
@Tina – Do you mean the link I gave? Regarding the articles about abuse, I don’t think they mean “abuse” to replace “murder,” I think they just got loose with what exactly counts as the Moore’s property. The fact that it doesn’t mention a murder at all is strange to me. It makes me think Joseph has it right (that page was up before the Paranormal Witness episode was), but it makes Amanda’s statement even weirder.
I agree that they’re playing too fast and loose with what happened where. Abuses unquestionably happened at MTS, but apparently not in Moore’s house. All I can figure is that maybe Moore purchased a big enough piece of the former school that she owns some outbuildings that housed patients? But no one seems to be claiming that, so that’s probably not the case.
@Squidge I don’t know what to think about Amanda’s comments. May be she spoke in haste, but Joseph Gallant cleared it up for me. SyFy deserves a lot of criticism for the background information about MTS which was portrayed on the PW episode. Not just misleading, but patently false.
There was abuse, there was mistreatment, there were forced sterilizations and experimental treatment performed, but what happened at MTS occurred all over New England. All of these facilities constructed when the eugenics laws were passed in the early 1900s had a different idea of how mentally challenged people should be treated. In fact, these facilities allowed individuals who didn’t belong in these “schools” or “hospitals” to be admitted: see the Ladd School and its admission of morally loose women. The Ladd School is another pet project of mine about to come to fruition, just waiting for the go ahead.
It was a sad period in history, but guys like Superintendent McNamara really tried to turn it around. The staff believed in the hospital at Mansfield and, overall, did a magnificent job with the limited resources they had.
@ Erik – “The Ladd School is another pet project of mine about to come to fruition, just waiting for the go ahead.”
Pet project? What are your plans for it? Sounds like it could be interesting.
I’ll let you know when I get the go ahead from the State of Rhode Island to look at the facility’s records. There are a couple of ways for me to go, but it has nothing at all to do with ghosts.
@Squidge, yes, sorry, I meant your link which you directed to Erik. As far as Ms. Moore’s house and property, it does not include any building’s used to house patients at MTS.
@Erik, yes, the staff at MTS did the best they could, Superintendent Kelly was in charge until about 1973 then McNamera came. Although McNamera was not as well liked as Kelly, and did away with a lot of the social activities and events they had for the patients and staff and their families such as carnivals and fireworks in the summer, paddle boats in the lakes, the diving board at the swimming pool, etc, I do not think he or his family were involved in any abuse or “murder” or cover up of same at their residence, the page you provided the link to seems to insinuate otherwise and I believe that is purely fiction. It seems to allege abuse at the Superintendent’s residence.
@ Amanda & Joseph
I’m curious to know how someone becomes “involved” with a group, such as yours.
Basically, myself and two friends of mine, goto local places and take pictures, ask questions, etc.. We have taken loads of pictures, maybe a dozen or so we could not explain or “debunk”. We’ve wanted to join a “group” for awhile but just don’t know where to start.
Any advice?
Also, does PROOF let people (like myself and friends) tag along during investigations? We’d love to show you all some of our pictures and share our experiences and get your feedback.
The other thing, I see a lot of “haters” on here. One thing I have learned is that most people don’t believe unless they have “experienced” some sort of paranormal activity. Though I understand the urge to defend, I wouldn’t give these people the time of day. Debating is one thing, but enough is enough once they get personal.
Anyways, if you guys can e-mail me or repost on here, I’d appreciate hearing from PROOF!
dthomas449@comcast.net
Thank you!!
Erik and Squidge,
You both express confusion concerning Amanda’s initial posts. I’m pretty sure its beause of her posting early in the discussion that everything in the PW Mansfield broadcast is true.
My take, in view of the PW episode and PROOF’s web account, is that Ms Moore, the homeowner, is at the root of the false information regarding, abuse, murder, and rape at the 1308 home. During the program she explains that she researched newspaper articles and discovered the crimes. Assuming the persons recounting their experiences, viewed intermittently with dramatic enactments, are not actors (???), it was Ms Moore who explained the discovery of a rape and murder in the home. Correct me, if I’m wrong, but I believe that she indicated the rape and murder occurred in the home, not somewhere on the Mansfield campus.
Furthermore, PROOF’s web account also describes Ms Moore relating her discovery of abuse from “within her now-home.” A paste from PROOF’s website:
“After weeks of researching and coming up with nothing, Ms Moore came across an article, an article written five years before her purchase that explained everything. The article read that 1308 was the home of the superintendent of the Mansfield Training School, a hospital for the feeble minded and insane. Ms. Moore read article after article that talked about the abuse of patients at the facility and from within her now-home.”
I’ve seen no indication that PW or PROOF attempted to determine the validity of Ms Moore’s claims. What could be less entertaining to a group of eager paranormal-phile audience, than lack of evidence to support the morbid past? Why ruin a profitable story by pointing out that the star character made false statements?
This whole thread has become an shamble of a discussion.
You all and have fun arguing over real life investigators and “professionals” who have a different view and recollection than Hollywood. All and all we are only looking at things through our own experiences and thoughts… why be open minded? (sarcasm)
Matt- I agree with you previous post. Hollywood is a money machine and what makes money are good shows. When televising/ creating/ writing a movie or show about paranormal, obviously the spookier and better sounding sell better. Regardless this thread has lost its luster to me. I simply debated and pointed out different things and people seem to get offended. Do not open a topic or subject if you cannot handle someone elses opinion. I am sure that once I leave this thread mnay comments will be made. In the end I do not care, I showed my point.
Matt – Ohhhh, good point! I kinda forgot about Moore since Joseph said she was also “disgusted” with SyFy’s lies. That makes perfect sense, thank you.
AWESOME EPISODE!!! I was scared out of my mind! I would love to find out more about that house and about the little girl……. poor girl :’(……… does anybody know anyway to find out……. :/
@Kaitlin – It’s funny you should ask about finding out more about the girl’s murder. That’s currently the big thing being debated in this thread. To offer a brief recap, the ghost hunting team who contributed to the episode says there was no murder.
Squidge, Why did the producers profess there was a murder? Obviously they made the house look more scary than it really is. I don’t mind the Hollywood embellishment, but why the lies?
Richard – I don’t know, but I agree that a flat-out lie is very disconcerting. In comment 24, PROOF’s executive director confirms the murder, then later the founder of PROOF says there was no murder. He talks about it a little bit about it in comments 154 and 157. Matt has a theory in comment 210. In short, it’s unclear at this point. Supposedly PROOF’s founder is going to post an FAQ and if he does, hopefully it’ll cover this kerfluffle.
[...] at the supervisor’s house at Mansfield Training School (MTS) in Mansfield. Our article about Mansfield Training School became ground zero for the debate regarding the show and that particular episode after it aired.In [...]
Mr. Gallant seems to be copying and pasting from various other sites where some of this info/claims were previously posted, it does not appear to be new info or a response to new questions other than the comments related to his being asked by the tv producers to “act sad and lie”. As to the “Reminder News Article”, the “Reminder” is a local community flyer type newspaper (I use the term newspaper loosely). It mainly serves to remind residents of events like bake sales and soccer games, hence the name, The Reminder. It is by no means an investigative newspaper. And, besides the fact that there are false statements in the “article” as to patients ever been housed in the Superintendent’s residence, (they were not), and it being the “original institution” (it was not) it is also odd that Mr. McNamera’s recent comments, as to never noticing anything strange in the house, completely contradict those allegedly attributed to him 18 months ago. Also, I came across another article in the “Reminder” which mentioned that PROOF was selling tickets to those who wanted to participate in their investigation at the home, and another article found elsewhere online wherein PROOF said there was evidence as to a former patient being murdered in the home, in that article it went on to say that they believed this patient was a male, 6’2” in height who cast a dark shadow but was only a “negative presence”, not demonic, and that they would be releasing the name of this man once his affiliation with the residence was confirmed. And, as far as the existence of any actual news articles, PROOF seems to be standing by the claim that there was an article which Ms. Moore found which “explained everything” and it states that article was published in 1994 (5 years before she purchased the property), why doesn’t PROOF produce this article? Surely they verified it’s existence as they continue to state that it exists, even in their comments on this Q&A. And, a newspaper article is public record, so there could be no explanation as to a contract not allowing the release of said article since it is already public record, it is exists.
Mr. Gallant seems to be copying and pasting from various other sites where some of this info/claims were previously posted, it does not appear to be new info or a response to new questions other than the comments related to his being asked by the tv producers to “act sad and lie”. As to the “Reminder News Article”, the “Reminder” is a local community flyer type newspaper (I use the term newspaper loosely). It mainly serves to remind residents of events like bake sales and soccer games, hence the name, The Reminder. It is by no means an investigative newspaper. And, besides the fact that there are false statements in the “article” as to patients ever been housed in the Superintendent’s residence, (they were not), and it being the “original institution” (it was not) it is also odd that Mr. McNamera’s recent comments, as to never noticing anything strange in the house, completely contradict those allegedly attributed to him 18 months ago. Also, I came across another article in the “Reminder” which mentioned that PROOF was selling tickets to those who wanted to participate in their investigation at the home, and another article found elsewhere online wherein PROOF said there was evidence as to a former patient being murdered in the home, in that article it went on to say that they believed this patient was a male, 6’2” in height who cast a dark shadow but was only a “negative presence”, not demonic, and that they would be releasing the name of this man once his affiliation with the residence was confirmed. And, as far as the existence of any actual news articles, PROOF seems to be standing by the claim that there was an article which Ms. Moore found which “explained everything” and it states that article was published in 1994 (5 years before she purchased the property), why doesn’t PROOF produce this article? Surely they verified it’s existence as they continue to state that it exists, even in their comments on this Q&A. And, a newspaper article is public record, so there could be no explanation as to a contract not allowing the release of said article since it is already public record, it is exists.
I am a RN and worked at MTS for 7 years in the 80′s. While abuse existed, most clients were very well cared-for and, in many cases, loved. Many shared holidays and other occasions with employees and their families. All manner of strangeness went on over the years, as you will find with any group of human beings. It upsets me when people talk about employees as if they were unfeeling monsters: this is simply untrue. Some RESIDENTS had committed rape and murder, however; many types of people were warehoused in institutions such as these. Still are.
From the January 30 2010 article referenced above;
“Threatening presences
As a result of the investigation, Joseph Gallant, founder of PROOF, determined the spirits in the house were not diabolic, but still posed a threat to the family.
Gallant said the spirits have been re-classified as an “E-Combo” – which means there is a mixture of intelligent and residual hauntings in the home.
Although the results will not be released until a later date, Gallant said the investigation did confirm that there is something happening in the Moore household.
“We went into the house and it’s not demonic, but it is a negative presence,” he said.
An investigator was pinched and the team recorded the humming of an unidentified woman, but the most dramatic evidence, Gallant said, was a full apparition of the angry male spirit in the house that was caught on tape. “We got the name of a full-bodied apparition,” said Gallant.
Mysterious man
He said PROOF members would not release the name of the spirit until it is confirmed the spirit has a connection to the homestead.
Identifying might be difficult due to the fact that records of the hospital were not kept and the building used to be owned by the state, said Gallant.
According to Gallant, the apparition – which appeared as a black, 6-foot-2-inch tall silhouette with the distinct shape of a head, shoulders and legs – announced himself as he was walking from one room to another on the second floor.
Gallant said the male lived at the training school and claimed to have been killed by a fellow patient.
Evicting the spirits
Names or no names, hostile or not, Moore said she wants whatever – who whoever – is plaguing the home gone.
She said Gallant and his team plan to conduct a “banishing” next week to force the spirits out of the home, so she can live there in peace.
According to Gallant, a banishing will rid the house of both the negative and positive energy that inhabits the structure.
“It’s more of a Wiccan method for ridding spirits,” said Gallant. The six-hour event includes blessing the house, burning sage and praying.
PS- Sorry Tina, I copied your post and meant to comment but instead only your post appeared.
Haha Paranormal Witness is precisely why I decided to research these old buildings. I was simply curious to see if their history was as sinister as the show made it seem.
amanda from P.R.O.O.F just saw the syfy show about this place that why im here too lol i was curiuos
Ugh super pist. …show was scarey. ……BUT so fake…..family never even moved in there and overall thhe staff was nice! I can’t say I don’t believe in paranormal bc I def do….but seriously show some real shit already!…we were not raised to make a world of lies….no wonder why everyone is f%$ked in the head
You might not believe the way i do, and i do not think the hunters for paranormal do . when every one is asking questions. You never hear any one ask if these entities know who Jesus is.. We know that we are spiritual being and that we believe there are spirits every were. But it is all presented disenfranchised from the truth. Entertainment of this kind is not useful and without explanation, but that wouldn’t make it very scary. For real if you are not prepared to do deal in the spiritual or “paranormal” think 2xs it is very real and can hunt u spiritually,mentally and physically.
So what do I do? I call on the power and the name of Jesus Christ. Has it ever been effective. You Bet..backed up by 6000years of history isn’t a bad place to start.. Still watching until it get borrrrrrrrring then i change the channel.
My father was a longtime employee of the school and had access to all the buildings for business purposes. I have personally accompanied him thru about 70 percent of all the buildings at one time or another, some at night but most during the day. Neither him nor myself ever experienced paranormal activity although he was alone in the former longley school around 1990 and he heard footsteps and whistling. Upon investigating, he found nothing. It was later learned a uconn student was squatting in the building. His candles started a fire that tripped the smoke alarm. I can confirm that there are 1.5 miles of underground steam and utility tunnels across the campus. Some have been bricked off at certain points. The steel grates in the sidewalks lead into them. Also there is an entrance in the powerhouse, hospital, and I believe Binet and tredgold halls. I have also been able to read numerous (lots!!!) of documents that were never public. Abuse did occur there but the only homicides were client on client violence. Hope this info was helpful. Time frame here was 1990-1992.
I just finished watching the episode. I do believe that these things happened in the house. Maybe I’m mistaken but, did they not say that the “house” the Moore family purchased was where the director of the school lived? I’m with Moore…stand your ground, the house can be cleaned from the unwanted.
I saw the episode as well; it is clearly fiction. In it, Ms. Moore blatantly lies when she states that she read newspaper articles which stated that “a rape” occurred in the Superintendent’s house as well as the fact that a “child was murdered there”. Those are both false statements. No one can produce news articles which claim these things happened there as no such news articles exist. The ending of the tv show is also fiction, no remains were given to the “state pathologist” to be examined and now the group which previously claimed to have found these “remains” admits they were not remains and were never given to the “state pathologist”. It is tv shows like this which give paranormal investigators and shows of this nature a bad name. There very well may be instances of paranormal activity but telling lies and fabricating “evidence” to make things more interesting and merit a tv show, take away from whatever legitimacy which may have existed regarding such claims.
No one was ever killed in the Greenlawn mansion. This building was for staff living, not for clients. Most of the surrounding houses on Rt 32, hillside rd and spring manor farm were also for staff. I can confirm that at one time the steam and utilty tunnels did connect to the house but at the time of a 1969 property assessment I’ve read the heating was oil hot water. The few homicides I am aware of took place in the residential buildings. In one case a male client punched another male client in the stomach. That client later died in his sleep from internal bleeding. The staff I met over the years of my visits there, for the most part, cared about the clients. MTS, for many decades, was considered at the forefront of treatment for the retarded. Most of the haunting stories about MTS are simply not true. I explored the knight hospital, storehouse, dimock hall, Matthews hall, sequin hall, the cafeteria, carpenter shop, merit hall, Binet hall and many others and never felt scared or in the presence of anything paranormal. I may be able to answer any questions about the facility that anyone here has. The number one question I’ve seen on most forums is “was there a morgue in knight hospital?” Yes. It was in the basement facing the powerhouse. It had spaces for two bodies. The fridges were removed and sold in 1991.
Amy’s occurences did indeed happen. If you’d like to talk to her about it, she owns the bar mentioned in the episode. Her daughter-in-law also works there. Her Daughter’s name is listed above the front doorway. There are a LOT more issues that have occurred to her than mentioned in the episode.
Squidge, thanks for responding to my question.
Amanda: What have you found out from the
state police regarding the remains? Do you ever
investigate outside of New England?
Wow. There is a lot of anger in this thread. I will give you a different perspective.
In the town I live in, there was an orphanage run by the Catholic Church. There were always rumors about nuns having babies from priests and burying them alive, mistreatment and abuse to the orphans. (many of whom who were taken from their families with the promise of a better life.) When the orphanage closed in the late 80′s, it was turned into a drug treatment center. Many people claimed to hear voices, see apparitions, among other things. There was a building connected to what used to be the chapel, which was turned into a gym. In this building housed a radio station, which I worked at. In that time, I have had apparitions play peek-a-boo with me, heard basketballs bouncing in the chapel, though the treatment center was abandoned years before that, and the room was dark. I have also heard babies crying and have had a man sitting in the studio staring at me. The point of the matter is this, just because events are not published or proven, does not necessarily mean they did not happen. I know what I have seen, I also know people who worked at the same station and have not had a single thing happen to them. Why that is, I do not know. If the family is scared enough by what they believe is happening and want help, so be it.
For the record, my area has our own Paranormal Society. They have showed me video and have had me listen to audio. Even with my experiences, the audio and video verified the notion that I am a believer.
Monica,
I’m not sure if it is anger. Hard to tell sometimes in print.
You do make a good point though. As for why others
have not seen and heard what you have, I have heard
that some people are just able to seen things while
others can’t. I don’t know why that is. It is as if some
spirits choose who they want to see them. When I
told people about the paranormal activity in my house,
they scoffed until they came to my house for a few hours.
Now they believe!
Dan, I don’t know if Amy wants to drum up business for her bar but based on the comments in the Q&A from the paranormal group involved, it does not appear that all of the events Amy claimed happened, on the tv show, actually happened in the home……the link to the Q&A is on comment 216.
Hello, My name is Gina
I was blowin away when I saw this on Paranormal Witness because I’ve never heard of it till tonight..My grandfather worked at a home for bad boy’s,I’m just wondering if the same place all in one, although he didn’t say much else about it…Thanx’s so much I just needed to write this
don’t know Gina. thanks.
I wonder if she would let someone stay ,I would love to go through the house and see if I get a feeling about the place . aNY WAY TO SEE THE LEDGERS OF THE PATIENTS STAYING THERE AND WHICH LIBRARY IS IT AS THERE IS A WAY TO SEE THE CATALOG ON LINE
Richard wrote – “As for why others
have not seen and heard what you have, I have heard
that some people are just able to seen things while
others can’t.” –
True Richard. There exists a substantial population of foks that possess these gifts. I believe they are called hallucinations. Medication seems to help control them ;~)
Hi Matt,
Looking at Richard’s post, he ‘sees’ things too. Are you implying he needs medication? That’s not very nice.
@Gina- A “home for bad boys”? It was the home of the MTS Superintendent and his family. And, MTS was a facility for mentally challenged/retarded, both sexes, they were not housed in the residence. The show you saw contained many fabrications to make it “scarier” and more apt to attract viewers. So, unless the Superintendent’s son was misbehaving, I don’t think I would classify it as a “home for bad boys”.
@Mii-regarding a “ledger of patients”, no patients stayed in the home, it was staff residence as noted above.
Hello Gina,
Thank you for noting my efforts. Offering medication as a solution was in jest. Yet it is a viable solution in some cases. When others fail to experience sounds and visualizations, then the possibility of hallicination certainly exists. If another person experiences the same paranormal phenomenon, then something other than a hallucination gains validity, per se. Regarding Richard, he indicates that others doubted his personal experiences with the paranormal, but later confirmed his claims.
When I
told people about the paranormal activity in my house,
they scoffed until they came to my house for a few hours.
Now they believe!
Nothing other than Richard’s testimony exists. What can I say?
Are ghosts trying to communicate? Trying not to communicate? Both? With whom? Reading the numerous accounts of paranormal encounter results in a confusing array of oft repeated theory and missteps in trying to validate them.
Matt, No offense taken with your post. I take it you have never experienced anything para normal? Monica, thanks for your post.
Richard and Monica,
Glad no offense taken. No harm meant. I have not experienced anything paranormal, other than perhaps witnessing the day-to-day administration of State Goverment
Hallucination is an interesting approach to delve into the topic of paranormal and doesn’t need imply insanity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinations_in_the_sane
There are experiences that seem real, but not yet understood by science (which would define those experiences as unreal). Therefore, in my mind there is alway ample room for the consideration of ghosts. Scientific methods can either explain or explain away our current understanding. Works both ways.
Tim,
If you see this posting, I’d like to talk to you about memories of MTS. I’m a former employee and worked there in the mid 1970′s.
Tim and Tom,
could you both email me at killingvector1@gmail.com I would love to chat with u both.
Erik & Tom – will list my email at the end.
My trips to MTS started in the eighties when my dad transferred there from another agency. Initially he worked in the Allan brown building but that was closed and his office was moved to knight hospital second floor. My family and I would meet him for lunch in the employees cafeteria. Later on during the summer I would go to work for the entire day. His job brought him all over the campus so I was able to go to the cottages, meet clients and staff etc. Later as the facility closed old buildings were cleaned out so we would go make sure no equipment was left behind. I remember the foot deep pigeon droppings in the building next to baker hall. Binet hall had sewage back up into the basement. The carpenter shop was one of my favorite locations. Full of cool stuff and the guys there were a trip. The storehouse was an interesting place to visit as well. Bill, the storekeeper was great. I found the empty jonstone and fernald halls a little spooky but not haunted. I remember the “bug man” kept his insecticide in jonstone. He drove an old ghostbusters style ambulance. Ed at the garage was another cool dude. They kept the fleet of MTS jalopy vehicles running on a shoestring. The basement of the carpenter shop ( old male cafe) was somewhat dungeon-like. Everything there was painted this awful green — the name of the paint was “frosty mint”!!
One time we were in one of the smaller cotages and a carpenter just finished spackling a hole in the wall. He was admiring his work when a clients fist came through the patch from another room! What a trip. I was able to access Alot of “off limits” areas. We had access to keys for EVERYTHING. I walked the steam tunnels a few times, starting in the powerhouse.
Anyhow my email is tledger331@aol.com. Look forward to hearing from you.
If you have ghosts, you have everything… Sing it
Roky.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKAeSqa-67w
Tim, That is pretty interesting and crazy.
Monica, my email is omegaman2020@yahoo.com
Hit up my Facebook page if you want to see comprehensive photos of the place now. Michael Mathis. Profile picture is the American Flag
Mike M.. friend me ( Jordan Scerbo ) SUNY delhi
hello my names heather i would like to know alot more about the mansfield traning school like what happend to all the people wat went on in there i heard some were killed? im verry intrested in this im olny 15 but would love to learn all that i can i heard theres some news articals on it but i cant find any please help
Not that I advise anyone to break and enter, but in response to the comment by SC at the top:
I was there recently, and yes, metal doors are welded shut and windows boarded, but many of the buildings have partially hidden ways to get in, if you are willing to look around and maybe get a bit creative. It’s still well worth the trip to anyone who is interested.
For 17 years, I had the pleasure of working with several people who had been residents at MTS. Sometime in 1995 (I think) they approached me to take a drive through the campus. As I drove around and listened to their first hand accounts of the time they spent there, I became somewhat confused. I prepared myself to hear all the horror stories, dry their tears and help them to get closure, however I could. Yes, they talked about the abuse that they witnessed and were the victims of, but they also shared memories of good times…movie nights, some compassionate staff members, late night pool tournaments, friendships that were made there, picnics on the grounds and bus trips they had taken. (As a matter of fact, on our drive through, I was the only one who cried.)
While I am not trying to minimize the inequality, the abuse or anyone’s pain, I just wanted to share my experience.
Peggy, could you contact me at killingvector1@gmail.com regarding your experiences at MTS?
btw, I would not advise anyone breaking in, not because of police, but because of the huge concentrations of black mold inside the buildings. The police will not enter the buildings b/c of the health hazard.
Hello, I’m a photographer who went a week ago to MTS. They have boarded up a lot of windows since my last trip 4 months prior On my first trip, I was able to get into several buildings to take pictures. There are many crawl spaces, but what shocked me the most was 2 vultures and lots of bird feces. Also, UConn has a lot of stuff stored away. Presently, they are cleaning out 2 buildings. My dad had an office in the Longley Building. It was moldy and uneventful.The only huge headline was that chineese students lived in the cottages paying rent to former lab director of ERI who used to be my boss.. The FBI were @Longley and cottages. It was all over the papers. What made me sad was the state of the buildings in disrepair and how the mentally challenged (not insane) had to live in a poor setting. Also, I went to cemetary @CVH where the gravestones are numbered. I document through photos abandoned places. Yes, some abuse went on. What concerns me more is that there are still people living in similar situations suffering.
My father drove bus for the patients at the Mansfield training center in the 80′s. I remember him telling us a story about how they treated the patients, they would get them by the back of the hair near the nape of the neck and yank to get them moving, the patients would be laying on gurney’s in hallways for long periods of time, when asking for help the were ignored, these were patients who were knew to the facility and I can imagine were terrified and no one cared one bit…my father was very bothered by this. I believe this place could be haunted by lonely and tortured souls.